THE AI SERIES: The future of the finance function with Nick Urry

* Transcript created by AI – may contain errors or omissions from original podcast audio

Clare Wood: What will the finance team of the future look like? Will AI replace accountants, CFOs, or even the way we make business decisions?

Today I’m joined by Nick, the founder of Dexterous Group and DexIQ, for a fascinating conversation about the future of finance in an AI-powered world.

We unpack where AI is today, what’s changing faster than most business owners realise, and what founders and CEOs should be doing right now to stay ahead of the curve. Nick also shares his vision of what the next 10 years could look like, and it’s a glimpse into a future that’s closer than you might think.

All right, let’s dive on in.

Welcome to the Intentional Money Show, where we talk business growth, profitability, mindset, and building a wildly successful creative or digital business without sacrificing your life in the process. I’m Clare Wood, business profit coach, speaker, author, and unapologetic believer that you can build wealth and freedom doing work you genuinely love.

Each week on the podcast, we dive into the strategies and honest conversations that will help you scale sustainably, increase your profit, and build a business that actually feels good to run. Let’s grow your profit.

Clare Wood: A big warm welcome to The Intentional Money Show. Nick, I might hand over to you to introduce yourself to the listeners.

Nick Urry: Perfect.

Thank you for having me on. Nick, Dextrous Group and DexIQ are the two businesses I’ve founded. Been in industry, over 20-plus years. A chartered accountant and a tax agent for all my sins. Been… And spending a lot of time i- these days talking about AI within finance and how it’s applicable, where it’s somewhat turnkey perhaps and where there’s still a lot of work to be done to give us accountants and finance professionals peace of mind and comfort and trust and reliability in any solutions.

Clare Wood: Yeah. Great. Do you know what? We might even go back a bit, ’cause I’m always really curious about this question. Why did you decide to get into accounting?

Nick Urry: It’s a great question and to be honest, I feel like I spent f- five years after high school trying to find any other career outside.

You know- Yeah. … I was one of those people that did Myers-Briggs tests and was like, “What am I gonna do with my life?” I didn’t wanna go to university straight from high school because I thought I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m just gonna try and figure it out, so why don’t I get a job?” and I worked in workers’ comp and then did a sports management event, like event management and sports marketing course through a business college in, 2002 I think it was.

Probably showing my age there. And, that was a glamorous somewhat industry, but didn’t really find any opportunities in it. And then went on a path where I did hospitality jobs for a few years working in hotels and and, really was unsure what I wanted to do.

And then I applied for university in, in my kind of early 20s and got offered a, an accounting degree at kind of ACU there in North Sydney and I was like, “Hey, accounting’s quite specific.” it’s not this international management one that I, I’d also applied for and got into, and I thought that’s more specific.

It’s up the road. Why don’t I give this a go?” and it’s funny, if I reflect back now, I did six months full-time uni. In the first holidays I got a paid internship through this, the Chartered Accounting Institute, over the break, and they offered me a full-time job after three weeks and I do say the rest is history.

As much as the ducks didn’t line up before then they did as soon as I set my path in this direction. And, my, my pop was an accountant and there’s many signs that it was like it was probably hitting me in the face- … As it turns out. So yeah. Look it probably wasn’t my first choice necessarily, but I think I just naturally gravitated towards it through a series of poor career choices.

And yeah. Said that I’ve never, since that journey of seven years chartered and probably five or six years in, in the commercial environment, in big business, small business, and then I started, Dextrous in 2015- index like you in, in 24, 2024. So- Yeah.

Clare Wood: Fabulous Yeah. And what led you to start Dexterous?

Was there a moment? Was there-

Nick Urry: yeah. My, my wife will always tell me that when I first met her, I said I was never gonna run my own business. So it’s it probably wasn’t always front of mind. My parents had their own business, and so maybe there’s something innate there in that kind of entrepreneurial streak.

But I probab- I was working in a big business, was a bit disenchanted at the bureaucracy that exists in organizations of 20, 30, 40,000 people and very siloed approach and a mutual friend of my co-founder and the, and I in the service business put us in contact. He was doing some bookkeeping, accounting work for some clients, but needed a tax agent, and I was a tax agent and, it was really interesting.

It’s a date really, the three or four coffees, at a cafe in the city in Sydney City there. We connected and I was like why don’t we try and do something here?” like a global workforce or offshore team and the intimacy of a Sydney team and, cloud technology which is what we would refer to it as pre-COVID world in 2015.

But yeah. And the, the approach for us is always to be innovative and refreshing.

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Nick Urry: I didn’t aspire to be a partner in an accounting firm and, my, my co-founder in that business jumped out when he probably started to feel like a, a partner in an accounting firm, and so we’ve always wanted to…

We’re a business like our other businesses that we service. We try to lose the firm and maybe the connotations attached to it and yeah, look, since 2015, obviously experienced COVID through then but that was a very challenging time for the business. But the business model is probably quite mainstream in a post-COVID world, having an offshore team, Sydney team, or Australian team and technology.

So we’ve gone on a journey again to, to what is refreshing and innovative in 2024, 2025. So I feel like I’m starting again. You know- … definitely with building, building a product in market is, got its own challenges. So I feel like I’ve, I’m hustling for a $200 a month sale these days, where it’s takes me back to the early days, when I was doing that in the service business.

I feel like I’ve come full circle and I said to my wife the other day, I was like, “I didn’t really need another business to run.” I was quite busy and quite settled with what I was doing, but here we are.

Clare Wood: So tell me a little bit about this product that you’ve created.

Nick Urry: Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. So D- DexIQ, look, it’s built by, I would say, by four finance people.

It’s an AI bookkeeper i- is our North Star and the journey we’re on and so having firsthand experience, you know, across, 11 plus years of what my global team, we’ve got 40 staff through a branch office in the Philippines, and seeing firsthand where a lot of time gets spent within a finance function, whether you’re a small business, big business, or, mid-market sized business and- What are the kind of roles that are being performed?

We’ve developed Dext IQ which is in its probably third or fourth iteration now, and we’ve started in terms of deliverables, managing an accounts inbox and preparing kind of an accounts payable run. And quickly moving into month-end close, spend analysis and broader parts of a bookkeeping role.

We started with accounts inbox and accounts payable because whether you’re selling apples or oranges, it’s fairly standardized. Yeah. What comes through an accounts inbox is, “When am I getting paid? Why haven’t I been paid? Can you pay? Here’s an invoice. Here’s a purchase order.” and accounts payable, yes, there’s nuances based on approval routing, but ultimately invoice comes in, it’s reviewed, it’s approved, it’s coded, and then ultimately paid.

We’ve started there a- and then we’ll start to, look at either industries or, particular size businesses because then you get into accounts receivable and payroll and things become more nuanced whether you’re selling product or service. Also believe that where Dext IQ is based, it’s, building the house from the ground up.

AI technology today really focuses on, aggregation of data, insights, analysis and yeah, the reviews of documents and critiquing and preparing spreadsheets and these sorts of things. But we wanna start at that ground zero of the finance function because like a lot of businesses probably don’t have an appreciation for how much time gets lost in an accounts inbox or managing AP going back and forth with suppliers.

And the, the attention span of people, in 2026 is about, from five to eight seconds, maybe less, depending on who you ask, and you need strong technology and strong people to get outcomes. So- Yeah … My, my quest with a- with AI, and everyone’s different, is to not- negate the need for kind of an offshore or global team.

It’s to empower the best people with the best technology. We’ve always wanted to try and stay ahead of the curve and understand where the opportunities are. And the team are tasked with looking to automate as much as possible. And I always say to the team “No one will lose their job because you automated a way.

You’ll lose a job if you don’t.” Yeah. That’s the kinda thinking we wanna bring to the table. And so Dext IQ is, yeah, focused on that foundational layer of the finance function because it’s, again it’s codifiable logic. You’re not generally putting your most experienced person on those level of your transactions or at that, that, at that level.

You just want someone who is high attention to detail, delivers on time, asks the right questions and there’s accuracy. And that’s where AI is today in terms of maturity in finance. Provided the right guardrails are there it’s pretty good at doing that.

Clare Wood: And so what’s the actual AI functionality that sits within that process?

Because obviously a follow-up process is pretty standardized in terms of sending out emails. There’s… What’s the what’s the actual technology doing that’s different to- what’s… Yeah … an automation?

Nick Urry: Yeah. Great question. I think, look, AI brings a level of intuition we’ve not seen before. With machine learning, RPA you’ve got this almost robotic, it’s, it just workflows. It’s A to B every time, yeah. With AI you’ve got the ability to start a day that says, “Well- I could go to B, but we could also have to look at C, and to, to then get to B based on what’s been v- what the information here.

So there’s a level of intuition as people would’ve seen in market when you look at, the latest models, Fable five versus a a Sonnet. You can just see there’s a, an elevated level of thinking that goes on. And I’ve been questioned on what’s the, the most, if you like, with Dext IQ, and it’s really focused on, it’s been built off a really strong senior bookkeeper in this business and the behavioral patterns of strong bookkeepers, and there’s, it’s not just a workflow tool. The AP market is saturated. And but so there’s a level of i- intuition that’s been in built in the platform.

And an example of that might be an invoice comes in, it’s got no ABN. The person might go to ABN lookup, put the ABN on. They might just do nothing. They might just wanna email the supplier and say, “Can you give me the ABN?” Like through Dext IQ, there’ll be a pop-up box that says, “What do you wanna do?

Do you wanna send an email?” And you’ll click send email, and it’ll go back. It’s already drafted an email saying, “Thank you for your email. Thank you for your invoice. Can you please, add the ABN to this invoice so it’s a valid tax invoice?” so that’s the logical next step. So we’ve built it trying to understand, okay what’s the…

We’re not gonna solve for every problem and every use case. That’s okay. We just need to be able to enable the user to intuitively work through to problem solve because I think as finance professionals, we are problem solvers- Yeah … by definition, and we don’t necessarily always see it as work.

The, the Dext IQ’s been designed around that, that kind of, that framing, if you like. And where it, i- there are, there isn’t an accuracy In the data or the invoice, like what is the logical next thing that the person would want to try and do? Yeah,

Clare Wood: absolutely.

Nick Urry: So that’s a, a big focus for us.

… And I think in a world where, you can vibe code lots of solutions, I often would say that, and maybe this is a self-serving statement because I am investing in building something, but I, I still believe it to be true and above that is that, vibe coding will get you 80% of the way there.

But it’s software development that closes that last 20%. You need to harden the, the software or the, the… what you’ve built. You need it reliable, scalable. And I often when I talk to people about Dext IQ or AI technology that people are bringing to the business, it’s like hiring someone.

If AI really is gonna perform some tasks that humans, are or were performing, then you’ve got to think of it through the same vein. And so you hire someone, a junior to do your AP mocks management, you hire Dext IQ. You’re looking for early trust signals. Are they asking the right questions, this person?

Yes. No. Maybe they’ve asked a silly question. You’re like, “Oh, have we made the right decision?” Dext IQ, is it… Has it misclassified an invoice as a receipt? Oh, that’s not great. But how are those… How is it performing? And then you pay close attention and then 30 days in, you’ve built the memory bank through, through Dext IQ because it picks up the nuances that might exist per supplier within your business.

There’s a memory bank there, similar to what you would see with Claude. The junior, you have those conversations and 30 days in you’re like I’ll just check them once a week ’cause I can see it’s accurate. I can see they’re asking questions.” we take people on a journey when you use the software and that…

But ultimately it it it becomes… It’s compound intelligence effectively in, in the tool.

Clare Wood: And is there… So when you said about the the development and the supplier specific, so is there an interface with the CRM that it’s deriving history that, for example, someone’s notoriously a late payer and you’ve gotta hassle them a lot to get it paid?

Is that sort of- … the sort of thing that you’re talking about?

Nick Urry: Yeah, so that that’s on the, the horizon, that greater l- that deeper payment intelligence there, and that leads into, accounts receivable as well- … a- as AP, and that’s where the, the bookkeeper skill set, or the, the Dext IQ broadens in its application for businesses.

Because, yeah, you can look at, average payment days per supplier. You’ve obviously making a conscious decision on when you pay suppliers. So that information may or may not be relevant for yourself, ’cause you’ll always make a conscious decision on when you wanna pay. But if you’re looking at your collection side, yeah, can look at, okay this, this client on average they pay you on 45 days despite your seven-day terms or whatever it might be.

So looking at how, we’re spending a lot of time at the moment on that development journey and how, ultimately it can provide value to customer zero, which is the service side of the business. What are the things that are topical, if you like, across multiple clients?

What are the things that certain per industry? Yeah, that, that’s the sort of the level of intelligence that AI’s really good at today, and now with Anthropic and Xero being in partnership, you can easily extrapolate or extract and then extrapolate data sets to then go what’s some insight or analysis that I should be conscious of or that would be useful information for me?”

Clare Wood: Yeah. Perfect. So explain to me then, ’cause you said that the future is obviously this new tool that you’ve developed, but how does that tie in? So you always see that there’s a role in Dextrous or in general for the human element of bookkeeping, or do you think that there’s- That the, the future of bookkeeping’s gonna look significantly different?

Nick Urry: Yeah. I think it’ll look significantly different. A- and I, but I think strong people will always have their place. I think people who are curious and ask questions about the technology, they’re and are frequent users- Yeah … it’ll, productivity will increase. People who try and bury their heads in the sand and stick with more traditional archaic tools, their productivity will stymie and they’ll start to, clients will start to, to hear at a barbecue on a Saturday or through their professional networks about different ways of working.

And you’ll then also have these AI native general ledgers. So at the moment, Xero and like the MYOBs to a lesser extent but others have their captive audience. But there’s a whole wave of more AI native general ledgers that are in the US that’ll start to filter into the Australian market that’ll have, you’ll get these people, first movers, l- laggards, people will start to gravitate across, based on price, functionality, ease of use and these sorts of things.

So like what does that do for bookkeepers? I think, look, we would say that there’s a human in the loop is a, is an expression that’s used quite often. The ultimately the AI, it provides more data points, and these data points need to be validated. And yes, you can extend that and say AI can also validate data points.

And it will come down to the comfort of individuals, in around how they want outcomes achieved. The finance department is a you need accuracy at every turn. You want integrity of data- So if you’re looking at where you can have an autonomous finance function that’s void of people finance is probably not the place you wanna start.

Yeah. And I think as finance people, whilst there’s a lot of a huge impact of AI in our space the, a big challenge for AI as I see it move forward is not so much the technology or as much as the technology and the maturity of it, it’s the people, yeah. And finance people who are progressive can still find roles for them. But finance people who are, creatures of habit stuck in their kinda ways and doing things the way they always have, there’ll be challenges there. So the, the market will move and shake, people some people up, some people out, some people sidewards- Yeah

based on the technology. It’s a really fascinating time. It’s, it’ll be really interesting looking back in 10 years’ time around this next five years and the impact it’s gonna have on productivity on business ’cause it’s not gonna go anywhere. Yes, there’s gonna be greater legislation a- in and around its use.

A- but that’s not gonna stymie its adoption I wouldn’t have thought. But yeah, it’s… I often say the comments I make today might be dated next week because- … we’re all at the mercy of an update or an upgrade from some of the big players and that’s a little bit unnerving if you’re building product, utilizing AI and how long’s the runway and the opportunity if you’ve just got product, Yeah

If you’re just building product. Something someone recently told me, I think it was a client, said, “Oh, I’m not gonna replace my bookkeeper ’cause the bookkeeper left. I’m just gonna use AI.” And I looked at her with big eyes and said But you don’t really have a strong understanding of what your bookkeeper’s- Yeah

Clare Wood: actually doing. And- Yeah … It’s the, the age-old saying, “Garbage in, garbage out.” So- … yes, there’s an auto-reconcile function in Xero at the moment. I don’t know what your opinions are, but what I’ve seen at the moment, it’s pretty hit-and-miss. Yeah. And a lot of bookkeepers I know are saying I spend more time journaling things to where they need to be than I would’ve-

Nick Urry: yeah

Clare Wood: just doing it myself- Yeah … in the first place.”

Nick Urry: yeah. Yeah.

Clare Wood: And I think that perhaps the average business owner, and I think that, coming from, being an accountant it’s probably a, a little bit more evident to someone in the industry than people who aren’t. So for example, when I’ve seen people’s reports, and I’m like, “But this…

It’s nonsensical looking at marketing numbers that have things in there that were supposed to be sitting in payroll, and expenses sitting in the wrong accounts.” we can’t even use this data to make any commercial decisions because there’s so many inaccuracies in it. And I think that particularly people that don’t have that skill set or that ability wouldn’t be able to have that distinction perhaps of the importance of having these things done accurately.

Nick Urry: Yeah. Ex- exactly right. And I’d say you need to know what good and bad looks like.

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Nick Urry: And the good bookkeeper will know very quickly whether it was the junior that prepared it or whether it was AI- … where there’s inaccuracies, and the same could hold true for a, strong CFO in looking at the numbers.

So I think you’ve gotta be looking at it within your finance function. To what extent can depend on how you’re currently set up today with the infrastructure you have because- there’s a, a school of thought there, and I’ve got my own observations of this throughout, productivity gaps post-COVID world and wanting to get the most out of your employees, and I think AI can help bridge that gap to increase productivity.

But at the moment, like I’m seeing more time spent on tasks than saving, for sure with AI. Yeah. As everyone’s trying to figure out where’s the biggest opportunity. But people are losing a lot of time in orchestrating solutions. And I, yeah, I think we’re looking at having no bookkeeper and just AI, I think you’re right.

If you, if the business owner doesn’t have a high level of financial acumen, it’s a real risk because it’ll just there, there’s, you need someone who’s got an eye for it, a strong bookkeeper, to just pass the reins of it. Now, they might, you might pay them for three hours a month, not seven.

That’s fine, but that three hours is still highly valuable, and to ensure the outcome. And so we look at this in terms of our, our pricing strategy in and around the, the service, and it enables us to be more timely, more accurate, with the delivery, but the outcome’s still the same.

That and how much time is saved on any given task is something that, that we’re working through. But yeah I think it’s way too early in the journey to be saying that, “I don’t need a bookkeeper, I’ve just got AI to do it for me,” and I’d be quite nervous by that.

Clare Wood: And on the flip side as well, something that I’m seeing really interesting is also the resistance, so if someone does come across a mistake, and they’re like AI is crap, and we’re never gonna be able to rely on AI.” And I remember seeing Elon Musk saying this about Teslas, and he said when the first crash happens in a, an un- a driverless car, everyone will have their arms up in the air.”

But- People are dying every single day when humans are behind the wheel, and no one- Yeah. And I remember seeing something in the space of d- cancer diagnosis, and it was saying- … that AI technology at the moment has a slight… I think it’s like the human accuracy rate was 70%, and it was 75% and people are like see, it’s still getting it wrong.” And the, the researcher was saying, “But it’s getting it more right than humans.”

Nick Urry: Yeah.

Clare Wood: That’s the bit- Yeah … that you’re missing. Yeah. And yes, it’s still making mistakes, and it’s still- Yeah … inaccurous- inaccurately giving diagnosis either way- but it’s still outperforming humans. And this, I think, is the opportunity as well that a lot of people in the anti-AI boat are missing, is that… A- and the, the- Yeah … entire concept of artificial intelligence is that it’s gonna get better and better over time.

Nick Urry: Yeah, ex- exactly right. It’s a great question, and it, and it’s only gonna get smarter from where it is today.

Yeah. But I find… I speak to three to five CFOs a week and different bookkeepers, and there’s definitely different schools of thought in its application today. And I think, look, it actually reminds me of when I started Dextra’s service business back in 2015, and outsourcing or offshoring.

I had a bad experience, I’m not gonna do it. It’s like, okay, but yeah, you have a bad e- you have a bad e- hire a bad employee, so you’re gonna hire another employee.

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Nick Urry: What did you learn from that? Going offshore outsourcing is not… Or maybe not outsourcing different, but out- offshoring, it’s not turnkey.

They’re still people, Yeah … that, that require time, attention, coaching, depending on what level you hire them at. And a- I found with

Clare Wood: AI- And security and processes as well. Well- Yeah.

Nick Urry: Yeah, exact- exactly right. And so you wanna set them up for success. So if you have a bad experience, you look at, okay is it people, process, or the technology?

Or, and around that, that hiring. So people and process, and how strong was that, that kind of onboarding process for them? And I find with AI, like there’s a lot of people who- when I speak to them they’ll… They’re anchored to the, “I’m gonna tell you why this doesn’t work for me.”

Yeah. And I’m almost like let’s flip this on its head. Let- tell me how it could work for you.” and again, we I equate it to it’s hiring a junior and intermediate, and it should be treated as such, and you’ve gotta critique it and guide it along the way.

But the people are also, to your point, looking for perfection. “Oh, it’s not perfect.” It’s like but is a human perfect? Yeah. There’s a reference point. If we’re asking to do what a human’s doing, then surely you wanna benchmark it against that human. And if it’s not perfect, is the alternative perfect?

Yeah. So they’re conversations I probably have a little bit less these days, but definitely three to six months ago there was a lot in everything has a reference point, and if you believe that AI is possible at taking out human roles or parts of human roles, then, let’s compare against that reference point.

As I said, I think it’s… We’re in a space now where you’ve got, there’s so many distractions. Even your best person is distracted every three to eight seconds. So you need strong technology and strong people to get outcomes. You can’t just rely on your seasoned experienced person saying, “Oh, no, it’s done now.”

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Nick Urry: Because, whether it’s your phone, your email, your computer there’s so many distractions and you rely on the discipline of individuals to stay focused and stay on track. And it’s hard when you work in such a an, an economy where people are working from anywhere.

… that’s, Yeah … yeah, there’s definitely there’s few stigmas a- around kind of AI and the adoption. But yeah, look, I’ll first admit it’s not perfect. But again, the alternative is not either, but let’s work towards what is perfect.

Clare Wood: Can I ask you a question? What, what scares you the most about AI and the rate at which it’s progressing?

Nick Urry: The unknown. It’s, as a business owner, I’ve invested a lot in the path we’re on. And that’s in time, bandwidth, dollars. And you could wake up one morning and there could be something that looks and feels a lot like what you do, and I have to revalidate my business case, and I talk about this.

Yeah, Vibe Code 80%, but the last 20% software development and, IndexIQ is built for the last 20%, which as we know, takes 80% of the effort. So that’s the space we’re in. But that gap will close i- in terms of what, how effective a Vibe Coded solution could be. So I think it’s the unknown.

It’s the great unknown. You take a lot of risks as business owners and we’re all in this journey to- together, somewhat. But yeah, and it’s under- trying to understand where’s the opportunity. I think there is a lot of opportunity but where is the biggest opportunity and not by dollar size necessarily by, by runway.

How long, and the pivot for me into DexIQ was that, I didn’t build a service business in 11 years to have it gone in 15. And if I look at a lot of the roles performed by my global team there are a lot of, like codifiable logic. It’s transactional. 70% of the work they do is, dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s.

So I want to understand what the role of a Filipino looks ahead of time and make sure we’ve got the same amount of people in five years time as we do now, and that’s by asking questions rather than waiting and seeing. So yeah, it’s the unknown though, because I’m sure like the, the technology is far more powerful, behind closed doors right now than what we know it is today.

And- Yeah … We’re only a, a a breath away, if you like, from some of the big players bringing something to market that, that could just change the game. And you listen to a few podcasts around, yeah the existential threat that’s AI and people have got really differing views, and like Elon will come out with his things and Anthropic will make announcements on it and you’re like, is it, is that a self-serving statement or what’s the reality? What’s the truth behind this? Or… And I think so much is we don’t know. But it seems like a race to get there to, super intelligence and these sorts of things.

But, and you just hope that, it, it- whatever, however powerful it gets, it’s in the right hands. And it’s, there’s a strong governance structure around it. But you’re not sure if these private enterprises, the what are they thinking? What’s their main motivation once things are established?

And

Clare Wood: we know the answer to that.

Nick Urry: Yeah. Yeah. Money. That’s it. That, that’s it. Just ridiculous wealth and- Yeah … and if that’s not great for in a societal sense, you know- … If it’s just a a number. Because there’s a detrimental impact for, a- across societies.

Like no one benefits from large scale unemployment. There’s a whole lot of mental health and economic and, but also social issues that, that flow from that. And like that’s not a good outcome for anybody. But governments I don’t think are moving fast enough to- to try and mandate and enforce governance in and around this. I think they’re still trying to figure it out.

Clare Wood: And unfortunately, I think what we’ve seen, I’m sure you saw the famous interview where the US Congress was interviewing the head of TikTok. Oh, yeah. And they were asking him those questions and he…

I’m certainly not a, a tech genius, but I’m like- Yes … “Is this the people who are setting the legislation?”

Nick Urry: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a worry. It’s a worry.

Clare Wood: Yeah. Yeah. So if that’s what scares you, what excites you?

Nick Urry: I think equally the opportunity, there is… A- and I do believe there is a lot of opportunity short, medium, short, medium term.

Long term, I, there’s probably the unknown. But in the short to medium term, there’s lots of opportunity. I’m finding myself you’re talking about AI in, nine out of 10 conversations I’m in, and I… it’s evident there’s a, a far far there’s, a there’s a broad range of views understanding an application of AI today.

And so I think it’s, for me, it’s trying to understand where’s the… I like giving back, I like helping and so I’ve set up kind of an AI finance forum where we can talk about AI as finance professionals and share insight. Maybe try and demystify it in part, but also show where it’s working really well and where it’s not.

So getting my, my, my personal kinda brand out there is a focus for me at the moment. And because I… it’s evident from the amount of people I speak to that the questions we’ve been asking for about six months, we’re it’s got us ahead of the curve in terms of how we think and feel about AI and maybe what we understand of AI.

So giving that back is a good probably fulfilling piece for me at the moment in being able to share that. And in a business sense, it’s, look, I think it’s building something, very different. I never thought I’d build something. But also seeing how that can impact the service business in terms of the elevation of people’s roles, the increase in margins, yes.

But it’s more around the… Okay let’s… I think it’d be really cool to look at, what’s the role of a Filipino with AI and Filipino, what is- Yeah … what is the… Dexsis has been really good at dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s. But what is that whole BPO market, the, the kind of the bum in a seat.

I think it’s, you wanna be able to offer tech and resource solutions to people in future and have the, the user, or the user, the client I should say, pick and choose. “Oh, I want this, I want that, I want this.” Okay, great. So that’s, yeah, like I think the ex- equal part exciting the opportunities but equally given the investments of time and dollars, I’m also a little bit like I’m putting a lot on this.

… and yeah, and there’s just so many unknowns. Yeah.

Clare Wood: Fabulous. So if you had to take a guess at what- … the average Australian business- month-end process look like in 10 years from now? What do you think is going to be, do you think that Xero will still be the leading accounting software? Do you think that people will have the traditional bookkeeper?

What do you think the finance function will look like for the average business owner 10 years from now?

Nick Urry: 10 years. Wow, good question. I don’t think Xero will still be the, the, the ledger of choice. I think much like MYOB probably held its ground in the ’90s, and Xero overtook it I…

There’ll be someone else that’ll lead the way. I think Xero’s challenge is it’s built on infrastructure that there’s probably a lot of techNickal debt in the platform and a lot of businesses, they’re trying to move to a more AI-native platform, but there’s gonna be challenges there behind the scenes as to how effectively they can do that.

So there’s probably a- I’m sorry to interrupt you there, but my perception is that because they grew so quickly, suddenly they’re trying to… From being, like, a nimble business that was like, “Yep, we’ve got this,” everything was changing, and now I’m like… It feels like it’s been stagnant for so long.

Clare Wood: Yeah. Even, Jack’s the AI tool within Xero, I’m like, really, guys? This is- Yeah. Yeah … a company with, of your size that we’re paying so much money to is so- being so slow to market. But I think that it’s become part of the, the, the nature of the beast. As a company gets bigger- Yeah

It’s like steering the TitaNick.

Nick Urry: That’s… Yeah, and as… And AI-native companies are those speedboats just circling, yeah. And they’re much more nimble. They… The cost to develop is- … is far less. The cost to iterate is far less. And yeah, look, I… Xero’s been a great piece of software, for a long time for many, but I think some of the decisions around the, the, the platform recently have highlighted that probably where they’re at internally in terms of the product.

I think the- Yeah … the fees are going up year on year. I saw just a, a post yesterday in New Zealand with all the fee increase, and Australia’s probably not that different. Over five years, it’s 43% uplift I think I saw roughly

Clare Wood: in terms of fee. Which, again, you don’t mind if you’re… Y- if the…

If you’re like, “This is getting better and better.” that’s… Yeah. And I think that’s why there’s been the resistance to it because, we’ve seen rises in the cost of our AI products, but we are happy to pay it because it’s getting faster- yeah … and it’s getting better.

Yeah. Whereas with Xero, we’re w-

Nick Urry: I think- Yeah. Yeah, I think you’re exactly right. P- as finance people, you focus on the cost side of the equation. But equally, if the value is increasing, then you’re okay with it. Yeah. Has there been a… What is the percentage increase in value created over that time?

And it’s… You could argue it’s probably far less. … and also more recently with, charging for APIs. And connectivity to Xero. It it just screams of trying to make hay while the sun shines in the short term. Yeah. And it’s not a medium- to long-term strategy to do that.

It’s short term. We’re probably gonna lose some ground here. Let’s turn this on. We’ve got a captive audience. We’ll bank on people’s mentality that cost to change is far greater than the cost to stay the same. So we’ll turn it on, and I know people that are going back towards, you know, manually batching information from a, a Shopify or an external source, and then posting a journal into Xero.

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Nick Urry: We’d moved away from that a long time with automated feeds and APIs- … and it was like everything was in Xero. Now it’s like I’m not gonna do that anymore. I’m just gonna batch it, and there’s software out there that will batch it for you, and then you push it through. Yeah, I think there’ll be an AI-native platform that’ll, take us forward, in the next two to five years and that’ll, grow adoption.

It’ll probably be a lower price point for sure because that’s why, you- I said your cost to develop is far less with AI a- and your resource cost to sit behind it to maintain it is probably far less. So- Nick

Clare Wood: doesn’t have a second product up his sleeve, and you- and you are counting it

Nick Urry: one job.

Yeah no. That, that- but it’s funny ’cause, yeah, so there’s so much opportunity. Oh. It’s a slippery slope.

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Nick Urry: Look at Dext IQ, and it’s like could it be a ledger? Could it be a purchase order system? It’s like no, it’s an orchestration layer between these systems, and it but and like the the finance, the, the, the, like blockchain technology is also gonna enable, real-time aud- audibility and traceability of transactions, between two parties.

And so ledger systems- Can you

Clare Wood: just explain that for the listeners, what you mean by blockchain technology?

Nick Urry: So look, I’m not far advanced in blockchain, but I know it’ll give you broader, across businesses, audibility and traceability of transactions. They automatically match on the blockchain. So how that looks and feels to, to users, I’m not sure.

So there’s people in that, deep in that space, but I know from a, at a conceptual level it means that the auditors don’t have as much work in the future as they do today because there’s that matching of transactions and that traceability. So there’s no verifications required necessarily, and there’s real-time matching and coding and reconciling of transactions.

Software, I was in a conversation this week where they talked openly about, the advantages of blockchain technology in the accounting space. So it’s the month-end close, could probably happen in seconds rather than, three days or four days is quite sharp now from 10 to 15.

But, 10 years’ time it’s happening in a second. There’s probably no thing, there’s no such thing as month-end close. It’s just another week, in the diary and you just find a trivial point in time to say this is how it performed through this period.” So- … there’s just a fluidity.

You’re not governed necessarily based on fixed month-ends as we know it now. It’s just about real-time data, real-time insights. Yes, you wanna compare periods, and you can do that, on whatever basis works for the business. But and the role of bookkeepers, maybe they’re called something different but their roles are they’re governance, offices or if you like, or compliance and but I think equally- The, like you can see through SingleTouch Payroll, there’s traceability straight through to the ATO, when payments are made now.

So there’s an easy extension of that towards other payments that get made. The ATO is not going to be sitting and waiting in future for information on accounts payable or just general business spent. And again, and that’s the thing where blockchain can have provide that visibility across the board.

So yeah, you probably, you do away with this notion of month-end close and year-ends requiring lots of work and reconciliation because it will just happen at real time. And the systems that are in play at that point in time will just give you that comfort and trust. I think trust, control and compliance are focuses for us in terms of the development of Dext IQ.

Like, how can you see what the agent’s done? You can see what a junior’s done. Where’s that like get comfort and then you can see that less, and I was challenged the other week on Dext IQ and I think in two years’ time, Dext IQ is just doing its thing. It doesn’t need someone to look at it.

Clare Wood: Yeah. ‘

Nick Urry: cause it’s just doing that role. But like a lot of things that, that business would need to evolve to, to, to follow the market somewhat in terms of where it’s going to add value. Because, in 10 years’ time, the way I’ve just articulated a future vision, there’s probably no reason for Dext IQ in that.

And that’s, that long term, that unknown, that’s why it’s unnerving because there’s a lot of time that’s that’s being invested now into a solution that, is it only a 10-year runway? Is that 10 years, maybe five to seven years? So but you look at the US market and we’re probably, 12 to 18 months y- behind the US in terms of what we see here.

Even Southeast Asia there’s products that are being established in those regions that by, ex-Xero co-founders or senior product people at Xero and they’ll, I think they’re Australian or New Zealanders by natively and so they’ll naturally probably, through personal desires or otherwise want to bring the product to this, this market.

And that’ll, put price pressure and competition on the Xeros and the other players in the market today.

Clare Wood: Yeah, there’s, it’s mind-blowing to think about what- … what it could look like. And equally, I think there’s a lot more, to your point about trust and governance, the more that we rely on technology, the greater scope there is for particularly sophisticated users like AI users to be able to modify things without a trace so that- Yeah.

Nick Urry: Yeah …

Clare Wood: and, and again, to your point, if people get to a point where they’re like, absolutely blockchain is unbreakable,

Nick Urry: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s it, do you eventually have a world where- AI does the doing and humans just then does the reviewing.

Yeah. Like it’s, you you look at AI today and you’re like do I want it to do the task or just review the task?”

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Nick Urry: I’ll prepare the board report and then it can just review it and tell me if I missed anything, yeah. Or prepare the board report, then I’ll review it.

Yeah. People are using it at different fashions today and I look at AI in two buckets today. You’ve got bucket one that’s the, which is that aggregation of data the insights the, the collation of board reports, these sorts of things. Then you’ve got bucket two, which is AI on actual end-to-end workflows.

And that’s what we’ll see kind of material shifts in people’s ways of working. But we’re at, we’re a… I would say today, that we’re a fair way off that just yet to, for it to effectively manage, so it’s a set and forget for someone. But yeah it’s… Who knows?

I wish I had a crystal ball. … I’m sure many do, but as I said, it’s, I find it, all kinds of exciting, unnerving but just trying to move forward and ask questions ahead of others just to really understand as a business owner where’s the, where are the opportunities, pockets of opportunity to add value to clients.

Clare Wood: Yeah. I have loved this conversation. I am sure everyone listening has as well. Nick, if people wanna connect with you, do you work primarily with businesses just in Sydney or across Australia?

Nick Urry: Yeah. Thank you. Look, all around Australia. So we’ve got teams primarily on the eastern seaboard, but we’ve got clients all around Australia.

And then some with subsidiaries overseas as well. Yeah, best way is either on, on LinkedIn or via email or is via the, through the website. But yeah, look, always happy to chat about all things AI and ideally put people’s minds at ease or give them clar- clarity on some use cases internally.

But yeah, I don’t, definitely don’t have all the answers.

Clare Wood: I don’t think anyone does.

Nick Urry: Yeah. Let’s be honest. That was probably a

Clare Wood: terrible sales

Nick Urry: pitch, but there was, yeah it’s,

Clare Wood: I’m sure you’ve seen the the AI reels where they get the two AI systems to talk to each other. It’s really funny.

Nick Urry: Yeah.

Clare Wood: It’s not even- AI hasn’t got a… Doesn’t even know yet.

Nick Urry: Yeah. I- What were you

Clare Wood: gonna say?

Nick Urry: I had a meeting earlier today. Actually, we both had our note takers there, and I thought, “Should we just jump out of this and leave the note takers to this or…” It’s just like you’ve got… You you live in a world where we- we’re not far off having AI talk to

Clare Wood: AI.

Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Urry: It’s crazy to

Clare Wood: think- Are we even really here?

Nick Urry: That could be another podcast.

Clare Wood: Oh, that’s so funny. Yeah. Yeah. What I’ll do, I’ll put all of the links in the show notes for today’s episode. If anyone wants to reach out to Nick, the Dextrous team and DexIQ, they can do so via the link in the show notes for today’s episode.

Nick, thank you so much for joining us on the Intentional Money Show, and, Yeah … we really appreciate your insights.

Nick Urry: No, I really appreciate your time, and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the session. Thank you.

Clare Wood: Thank you.

Thank you so much for tuning in to today’s episode of the Intentional Money Show. If you’re ready for more profit, come find me on Instagram at clare_wood_coach. Thanks so much for tuning into the podcast, and I’ll chat to you again next week

* Transcript created by AI – may contain errors or omissions from original podcast audio