Why your voice masks are costing you sales with Tracy Goodwin

* Transcript created by AI – may contain errors or omissions from original podcast audio

This episode of the podcast is one of my favorite episodes I have ever recorded. In the day and age of AI, our voice, our true authentic voice, is becoming more important than ever. And today on the podcast, I chat to Tracey Goodwin of Captivate the Room about what your voice masks are and the messages that we are subconsciously sending to other people, including our potential buyers, without even realising it.

In this episode, we talk about what those voice masks are and how you might accidentally be repelling sales. So if increasing your sales and building more genuine relationships and connections with your audience or your potential clients is important to you, this episode is a must listen. I hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoyed recording.

Welcome to the Intentional Money Show, where we talk business growth, profitability, mindset, and building a wildly successful creative or digital business without sacrificing your life in the process. I’m Clare Wood, business profit coach, speaker, author, and unapologetic believer that you can build wealth and freedom doing work you genuinely love.

Each week on the podcast, we dive into the strategies and honest conversations that will help you scale sustainably, increase your profit, and build a business that actually feels good to run. Let’s grow your profit.

Clare Wood: Good morning, and welcome to the Intentional Money show. Tracy, I have been so excited about this conversation. I first heard about you many years ago, and it’s the timing as we were just saying off air, the timing has been, you know, delayed a few times, but we’re… it’s come together today, so I’m really, really excited to have you here.

First and foremost, I would love if you could introduce yourself to the listeners and share a little bit about what it is that you do.

Tracy Goodwin: Absolutely, and thank you so much for having me. I’m glad. I believe in that divine timing, and I’m so glad it- that moment is finally here because I’m thrilled to talk to you and your listeners.

I am a voice decoder, and what that means is I hear seven layers of sound in every human voice. I have created a methodology that I call the psychology of the voice. I work in the vehicle of the voice, but I work to move out the imprint of our conditioning that is actually blocking our next level of success that we can’t even hear.

We can’t even hear. People cannot hear within themselves, but the subconscious of our listeners can hear those nuances, and they’re limiting us in ways that we’ve never really thought about. So it’s the psychology of the voice. That’s what I do. That’s what I work with.

Clare Wood: And I love this story, so I really want you to share it here.

How did you actually come into this space?

Tracy Goodwin: And I always tell people, I, I really came in kicking and screaming. And, and, and the, the… because I did- I really didn’t wanna do the work. I had been raised in a family that was an extreme version of children are to be seen and not heard. We were not allowed to sp- uh, uh, me and my middle sister, we were not allowed to speak.

We were not allowed to say no. You don’t express any emotion. And this work kept chasing me, and there were all these events that happened in my life because of my upbringing that said no. No. Nobody is going… Nobody… You cannot do that work.” But it was just bizarre. It was the Yellow Pages days and Fortune 500 companies would find me and they would say, “Do you– could you work with our C-suite?”

And I was like a mule being dragged through the sand. I didn’t get it, and I, and it was because I was fighting it. But I started working with dialects. I started being an actor because that’s what I wanted to do, and that’s what these, these people kept finding me. So I said, “Okay, I’ll, I’ll negotiate here.

I’m not gonna do voice work, but I will do dialect work.” Now, at this point, I’m in early 20s and I still don’t realise that everybody cannot hear the way that I can hear. I thought everybody could hear the way that I can hear, but I thought I’ll do dialects. So I taught dialects to actors for movies and 30 years ago, 35 years ago, we took dialects away from people.

So that is where people, these C-suites, these experts would hire me to get rid of their accents. And it was in that process that I thought, “Huh, why do the Irish sound Irish and I sound Texan? I wanna sound Irish. They sound really cool. How does that even happen?” And that was actually my first research study and I uncovered in that study that the subconscious actually determines the accent.

The subconscious actually, the information comes in from the parent’s voice, their dialect. The subconscious in an effort to create belonging because the baby needs to belong, literally tells the muscles and the jaw of the mouth how to hold that dialect. Just like I have a certain placement. All I have to do is shift me placement and I’m Irish And it was all a muscular thing and I thought, “Huh, I wonder if that happens in real life in other things.”

And then I was obsessed. And then I went, “Wow.” And it was off to the races. I went to work for Mike Nichols at his school in New York City, and I started working with more leaders and more entrepreneurs and I became obsessed with the work. And now here we are 35 years later and I’m still obsessed with the work.

Clare Wood: And explain why people would wanna pay to have you to come in and do this work with them. What are the layers? W- maybe we, we can start with like what are these layers that you’re talking about?

Tracy Goodwin: I think that has certainly been my albatross over the years is being able to talk about this work in a way that makes people understand why it’s so important.

And a lot of times it’s interesting that, you know, when you work with a business coach they, they always ask the same questions, “Who’s your ideal client?” And my answer is always, “Everybody.” “Well, that can’t be your answer, Tracy.” But everybody has an imprint and so people come to me for different reasons.

Sometimes… And here’s the thing, I think my people are incredibly successful. I work with really successful people so some of them are looking for an edge. They’re going this is interesting. What else do– what do I have? What do I have in my voice? What do you hear in my voice? I wanna know.” And then I rattle off this laundry list of things that are costing them 30% of their revenue.

There are other people that maybe they’ve never felt heard. Maybe they’ve never fully– They’re showing up, they’re doing video, they’re cutting deals, but it’s never been easy and they’re seeking an ease that they believe is related to their voice. So it’s not an obvious thing where it, it’s not like, oh, I’m struggling to generate revenue.

That I can take an action on. This is very different and I think it’s more about I think there’s something more. I queried many of my clients a couple of years ago and I looked at all their testimonials and that was a through line. There’s something more. There’s another level of authenticity.

Something doesn’t feel quite right. I’m curious, is there something you hear in my voice that is blocking someone from connecting with me, from me making more deals? Is there something that’s repelling people? So it’s very much about curiosity and it’s very much about is there something more

Clare Wood: Yeah. I love that.

And when I heard you articulating this on a stage, it suddenly clicked, uh, that’s why I became really interested in, in your work because there’s often something that we will be magnetized. We could see someone one time and there’s something that’s… I don’t know what it is about that person, but I want to hand over my credit card.

There can be someone else and you’re like, “I don’t know what it is about them, but they give me the ick.” There’s something that- Mm-hmm … and then there’s other people and you’re like, “I really love them. They’re really, they seem really genuine, but I, I don’t feel compelled to sign up and buy their thing.” And I’m wondering if this is what the work that you’re doing, it’s, it’s unlocking why do we have those feelings about some people- Mm

and we just want to hand over our credit card to others? Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin: Uh, this is my favorite thing w- to talk about right here because I don’t think… When we when people think about voice, I think a lot of times they think, “Oh, I need to articulate more,” or, “Oh, I s- I was in the choir in high school.” And that’s not at all what we’re talking about, Clare.

We’re talking about what are the sounds the size of a grain of sand from the imprint of your life that are still playing out the subconscious of the listener, and you gave three beautiful examples. The subconscious of the listener is processing those sounds before they ever even listen to words. So they’re processing, “Oh, you don’t think I’m going to buy, so you know what?

I’m not going to buy.” “Oh, I feel the ick.” Let me tell you what that is. That person is probably their voice has collapsed in one of two ways. They are probably moving into, “I’m gonna prove to you. I know I’ve got… Yeah, I know. Clare, I know. I know. I know all the things.” Or they’re completely shrinking and you’re going, you’re…

And I’m playing a subconscious game here, but your subconscious is going, “Well, I could walk all over her ’cause she’s collapsed because she’s a people pleaser.” And she can have done the work on being a people pleaser. The imprint in the voice is the last stop on the train because think about our voice and how much power it holds.

Power to be judged, power to be repelled, power to draw people in, and that’s my goal. I love the Visa card example. That’s what James said to me when I met him after a brief conversation. Can you take my Visa card right now?” That is possible, but we have to work through all that conditioning that is still protecting us in the form of the voice.

Clare Wood: And so where does this conditioning come from? Like you mentioned- Uh … childhood.

Tracy Goodwin: It can come from anything, anywhere, you name it. But the one of the s- and I do a lot of research. I am- Very big in quantifying. I am very anti let me watch a YouTube video and be an expert. So I, I’m– and I’m fascinated with the work.

One of the early studies that I did d- showed me that one phrase before we are five can literally determine how we use our voice the rest of our lives. So you’re four, you’re three, you’re five, and your mom says, “Shush. Why are you being so loud?” Your subconscious immediately takes that information in.

Actually, a wound is formed, rejection, judgment, belonging, couple of others, and the s- the voice stories are formed, and then voice masks are formed literally off of a phrase. It can be off of a tone. And then think about this. If we’re lifing, if we’re interacting in the world at all, think about it. Bosses, relationships.

Joe the doorman nearly killed me here in New York City- … because of the way… And I was in my 40s, so it’s the meaning that we’re making of the words that are spoken to us and the sounds in that person’s voice that we’re inferring. So it’s coming from everywhere. I’ve worked with people, I will ask them a question about, “Oh, were you allowed to shine?”

And we immediately go back to their older sister who got to have all the credit. But I can also say, “You’re concerned about what I’m going to think,” and we uncover that, yeah, she just left a very toxic boss. So it doesn’t matter. It really is the psychology of the voice and what is that core imprint, I call it a core driver, that we’re running off of because that’s what we’re always going to go back to.

Now, let me give you an example in selling. Let’s say let’s go back to that, “Why are you– Don’t– Why are you so loud? Why are you bothering me? I’m busy.” Mama says that. Mama’s just being mama. Subconscious says, “Ooh, this is bad. We’re bothering people.” You don’t think that’s gonna play out in selling? You better believe that’s gonna play out in selling.

All the people that are doing webinars, and they’re great at teaching, they’re great at talking about their… “Oh, now I’ve gotta tell you the price. Okay. It’s $497. Okay, who’s ready for a free lunch?” and it’s, it’s just, it’s that imprint. So it’s coming from so many. So teachers, actually in the body of work, siblings do the most damage

Clare Wood: Wow. There’s so– Something that you mentioned before about the voice loss. Can your voice… ‘Cause you said your voice mask, singular-

Tracy Goodwin: Mm-hmm …

Clare Wood: but can your voice have different masks depending on the situation?

Tracy Goodwin: Absolutely. I’ve uncovered, and, and what I call voice masks are barriers of sound that we subconsciously, they are imprinted, they are embedded in the body of the voice, but situational environmental things cause us to shift into them.

It’s like I’m talking to you right now, and I’m talking to you like I would talk to you a- any, anytime, anywhere, this is how I talk to people, and now you start to challenge me, and maybe I feel insecure. So now I’m gonna be very professional, Clare- … because I am a professional, and I’m gonna cover up that I don’t know.

Because so everything becomes circumstantial until we ride out these masks. So I’ll have a lot of people pleasers. I work with a lot of people pleasers who are successful, and they get really frustrated when I say, “Oh, you’re, you wear the voice mask of people pleaser.” And they’ll say, “What are you talking about?

I’ve been working on that nine years.” Well, circumstantially, when they, when it’s, “Oh, John’s in the… Oh, John’s in the me- Okay. Well, you know what? I’m not really even gonna say anything because…” Or uh, selling, and here’s the, here’s the fastest way for me to get people masked up. Sell me something or introduce yourself.

What are the two things we do the most in life? Sell and introduce ourselves, and that’s where we’re being the most protected because that’s where we fear the most judgment, rejection, not belonging. That’s where w- our w- our entire worthiness comes into question. So I can’t be me, surely, but I can be really a great performer, and we can have a lot of fun the rest of the time we’re together, Clare, ’cause I’m fun.

Okay? And so what it does is it completely destroys connection. But what happens when connection is destroyed? Well, according to the subconscious, we are safe. Now you can’t judge Tracy if Tracy’s a professional because now you’re just judging the professional So it’s, it’s a ch- it’s a trick of protection and it started from that first phrase or that first experience.

It’s really about safety. But then it got embedded in the muscle memory of the voice, and now we just do it. And I think a lot of… You asked me earlier about why do people– who do, who comes here, what, what do they want to work on? A lot of people recognize, “Why do I act like that? Why am I like that on video?

Who is that just showed up? What just happened there? Or why do I struggle to sell? Or why can’t I go ask for the promotion? I’m really good at what I do.” It’s w- So they’re aware of it, but maybe they’ve never put a label on it or linked it to something internal. Because we just– most people aren’t talking about voice this way.

Clare Wood: There is so much in here that’s really resonating for me. So I was recently at an event and- Mm … we did speed networking. Mm. And I generally think that I’m quite a confident person, and we were doing this speed networking. I had my pitch down pat. Then we went to drinks afterwards, and there was venture capitalists and all kinds of people in the room.

And one of them asked me what I did, and suddenly I, I couldn’t even really spit the words out, and I feel like I just stumbled and wasn’t cohesive at all. And I thought, “You’ve been doing this all day.”

Tracy Goodwin: Yeah.

Clare Wood: And suddenly in that moment, my words slipped away from me, my confidence was completely gone, and I know that that was felt through the people receiving that introduction.

Tracy Goodwin: Yeah.

Clare Wood: Yeah. And the other thing, uh, sorry, just one more story that I want to share because we’re talking- Yeah. Love it … about different circumstances. So I’ve got a son who’s eight years old, and he is- very confident. And you- he’s the child at home that you, “Don’t do that.” He, “Oh, I wanna leave now.” He just, just before we left, he was very, very vocal about, “We need to hurry up and get in the car.”

And when I was at his school, they said to me he really struggles with projecting his voice, and he doesn’t seem very confident. And I’m sitting there thinking-

Tracy Goodwin: My child? What? What on earth

Clare Wood: are you talking about? This kid does performances- Yeah … for us at dinner every night. He’s an actor. He’s hilarious.

He always wants to be the center of attention. And so again, I’m, I’m… I was sitting there really confused because it seems really inconsistent with the experience that I’m ha- But then I was, when you were saying that, I, the number of times I’m like, “Please just drop your voice. The neighbors can all hear you screaming and carrying on.”

Yeah, yeah. So he’s being told to be quiet all the time. So I’m wondering, yeah, like, h- what’s going on with that, that in some envi- He, at home, he’s… the place where he’s being told to be quiet a bit more. He seems very confident, and then at school it’s like he’s having the opposite- Yeah … experience.

Tracy Goodwin: I don’t think the two stories are any different.

The one about the venture capitalist and the one about the being at home, because there are places, and it- this is where it really becomes about safety, and it becomes about voice stories and the true psychology of the voice. So major props to you, mom, because you’ve created a safe environment. You’ve created an environment where your child feels like, “I am safe to fully express myself.”

We could take the same thing and say all day long you have felt like the authority, but there’s something in that venture capitalist, their sound, their who th- their being, something triggered something buried. And remember, I work in the invisible, the complete non-obvious, but there is something where all of a sudden now who do you think you are?

With Mr. Venture Capital. So there’s a difference in level of s- and I’m not in any way saying he’s not safe at school. That’s not what I’m saying. But I guarantee you there’s a little girl that at some point laughed when he said something, and the subconscious registered and went, “Okay. Okay. All right.

I know how we’ve gotta be here. We’ve gotta keep you safe, so this is… You know, I know you’re loud at home, and that’s great, but here we’re gonna play it cool.” Okay? And so, so s- there’s m- and there’s also societal implications on boys and girls, significant implications. I will talk often about how men traditionally, now not, and I never put anybody, everybody, you know, it’s not a w- a, a wide swath, but men struggle more with melody, which is high and low, than women do.

Women can bring in melody with much greater ease. Again, a place of curiosity. Why is that? What I uncovered in that was our voices don’t crack. Theirs do. Some boy, some friend, some little gal at the lunch table, when he says something at the age of 12 and that voice cracked, and he was made fun of, the subconscious immediately intervenes and says, “Don’t worry.

We’re never doing that again.” And then they show up at 40 and they’re like, “I don’t sound very interesting. What’s happening?” Well, it started, it’s in the psychology of the voice from that one experience. And I don’t want parents to… I always tell parents, c- because sometimes parents hear me and they freak.

And I’m like, “I don’t want you- I was, I was freaking out. I know. I know. You’re not screwing up your children. But I will tell you what’s fascinating about this work, even the research I’m doing around this work and certain diseases, we’ve got a powerful tool here. We’ve got a powerful instrument, and we’ve got a lot of opportunity to look at what are we pouring into people and what are the people in the world pouring into people from a voice perspective?

Because that is the litmus test for the subconscious, is, oh, not safe. Ooh, it’s very fascinating. A lot of the research I’ve done, a lot of the people I’ve worked with have had narcissistic parents. That’s a strong imprint. Well, what if we could change all of that? What in the world would be possible then?

I, I… Sorry, I just get geeked out about it- … because of the power of the instrument. So the goal now becomes and I think in a way this is what I would call a tentacles out versus tentacles in situation, that we have the opportunity, we operate in a tentacles out world. What are they thinking?

We’re taught to read the room. What are they thinking? What are they doing? What is she… All of that. So it’s possible to take it back to your son’s scenario, that at home he is fully tentacles in. He’s able to own his authority, and he is able to feel safe, and he is able to know the truth about his fullest expression.

Where at school it has to be a little bit more tentacles out. Our goal is to get people operating from tentacles in, which means early on we’re teaching people to release other people holding the power of judgment, the power of rejection, the power of abandonment. We’re really bu- building worth from the ground up.

Because what I want for people is be blindsided, no problem. Be in the big room with the big guys, sure, no problem. Be with Judy who can’t stand you, no problem. Cut the big deal, name the big price. Because I think when we’re fully in our utmost worth, that’s what we do. And I think we do it a lot, but then at other times, that outside inference causes us to feel like we have to be someone else.

Clare Wood: And so what does that sound like to you- Like you’re, you’re hearing things that we- Oh … are not hearing.

Tracy Goodwin: Yeah.

Clare Wood: I, I can be aware that someone doesn’t sound truly confident or they’re giving- Yeah … me the ick, or I don’t want to hand over my credit card. I think I really like- … but I don’t want to hand over my credit card.

What are you hearing in voices that we’re not hearing?

Tracy Goodwin: Okay, that is the hardest question ever, and I will do my best to explain it. This is why there’s no book. A lot of people will say, “Do you have a book? Can I read about this?” No, because the, the people want me to be… I want to be able to tell you what it sounds like.

So let me just riff on it a little bit, and let’s see if I’m giving an answer that makes sense. When I hear a sound, I immediately can hear it’s like a, you’ve heard of the idea of your life flashed before your eyes.

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin: Almost like dominoes falling. I hear dominoes falling in sound. So I will, I’ll use an example of-

I’m gonna use an example of fast. If someone’s talking really fast, that’s not fast to me. There’s a story behind that. And I will then– And so I will– So the sound could be fast. Now it can get crazy complicated what I hear that only the subconscious of the listener is hearing. But I’ll use fast for an example.

So I’ll hear fast and then I’ll immediately hear, “Oh, he’s talking fast because he doesn’t– because he’s worried he’s taking up too much time. And he’s worried he’s taking up too much time because nobody listened to him when he was a child. And nobody listened to him when he was a child because…” And I’ll hear the whole story.

But it starts with that sound. So you, so s- uh, you going back to fast, there’s four or five reasons people go fast, and they all tell a different story, and they’re all processed differently in the subconscious of the listener. So let’s go back to that feeling of ick. And I love it. Earlier you said, “Feeling, I can just feel it.”

That’s the point of the whole thing. We’re talking about sound frequency. It has a feeling which is– And we can get into the AI conversation, which does not have a feeling. But I feel gross about this. You probably heard an insecurity. You probably heard under a sound that they don’t believe I’m going to buy.

I’ll tell you something, a sound. Let me go to another one. Very successful women that are outcome-driven, problem solver, no nonsense, almost always have a sound in their voice. I don’t know if I can describe it, but I– every single time I say I’m concerned your listeners are not gonna think they’re good enough to work with you.

And every single time they go, “Oh my God, that’s what peop- that’s what they say. They say they’re not ready. They say they’re not good enough.” And it’s this tiny sound that sounds like I know more than you. I can describe these sounds in words, but I wouldn’t be it’s hard for me to talk about them literally what they sound like.

A hesitation can be a sound. It’s a checking in, like right now I’m looking at you and I’m wondering if I’m doing a good job and if you like me. Okay, your brain is going to make a decision about that. You don’t know that I’m thinking, “I hope she likes me.” Your brain is processing, “Does this woman even know what she’s talking about?”

And that’s what makes the work, I think, so power- I think the what makes the work powerful is the internal transformation. But what makes the work really powerful is when those sounds aren’t there, then they’re no longer hearing or deciding, “Oh, I’m not good enough.” Now, that is not the truth. It’s the altered story in the sound.

The sound always goes back to a voice story that says something like, “Who do you think you are, hotshot?” Oh When I figured out the first voice mask, it was actually needing to prove. And I was working with a man and he said I think I’m repelling potential customers.” And I said, “You are.” And he said, “How do you know?”

And I said, “What are you trying to prove?” And he said, “Why did you ask me that?” And I said, “It is all over your voice.” And he stopped talking and he looked at the ground, and he looked up, and he looked around, and then he said, “Well, I’ve spent my whole life trying to prove my worth to my father.” So it w- goes all the– that one went all the way back and he would only do it with me certain times.

Certain times I would see him or question him and boom, it was like a bulletproof glass went down and here comes that mask. And it’s literally just a sound and, uh, this… I think a lot of it for me is I’m chasing patterns, and I’ve done it so long that I can identify exactly what that pattern is. But I also can hear the real voice, which is in the seventh layer of the sound, and that is like a beautiful orchestra.

It’s like an unprotected, fully expressed, fully degrees of emotion, all the things. And so that other sounds like a fabrication. It sounds protected. It sounds condensed. It sounds small. It sounds like a lie, and that’s what makes you feel the ick, is you’re actually subconsciously processing it and you’re feeling their protection

Clare Wood: And so where, like did, were you born with this?

Is it, is this a- … a gift or is this-

Tracy Goodwin: Yeah

Clare Wood: I, I, I know you mentioned pattern recognition. Is, how do you think that you uncovered this skill?

Tracy Goodwin: I do believe and I think it’s all in retrospect. In retrospect, I can look at the body of work even when I was trying to avoid being a voice coach. I was working with actors, I was directing plays all over the world, and I know that what I was doing is exactly what I’m doing now.

I do believe at this point that it is, I was born with a gift, and then I just happened to dedicate my entire existence to it for 40 years of my life. I am currently teaching my very first round of certification students to, can I teach them what I hear? Can I teach them the seven layers of sound? And they are hearing it.

And I, I wonder if everybody… I have to believe that everybody can do this because the research that I’ve done shows me that everybody is doing it subconsciously. Subconsciously you are making decisions about sound. So you are hearing sounds on a hypersensitive level, but maybe you’re an accountant or maybe you’re a, a business coach or maybe you’re a personal trainer and it never entered your mind to chase this rabbit like I’ve chased it for 40 years.

So I don’t know. I do believe it is a purpose and a gift, but I wonder I wonder if… I, I feel like people have to be able to hear on some level the way that I hear because they’re just making decisions based on sound.

Clare Wood: But without the same level of awareness that you have and that you’re hearing? Okay.

Tracy Goodwin: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s gotten more and more and more acute over the years. I had to learn to turn it off because I could be in a, a room with angry business people and I would run fever for five days after I got off that call because I was processing so much layers of motives and what is being unspoken.

And as I’ve… The, the more and the more years I’ve been in the work, I have to really, really protect it because it has gotten more and more intense. And it’s wild because I live in New York City, probably the, the loudest place on earth, and there are certain sounds that I just have had to block out, and certain people will say, w- you know, I tell people, Clare, I say, “I don’t have a lot of friends,” because people are always like, “What are you hearing in my voice?

What do you-” “… what do you hear? What, what, are you listening?” And I’m like, “I promise, I, I’ve mastered turning it off.” Or I would be in analysis mode 24/7 because it’s, it’s instantaneous. Instantaneous. I’ve had thoughts over the years many times I should unsolicited– I, I don’t know that that’s the, the word, unsolicitedly message people and say, “Let me tell you something that’s working against you.

There’s a sound that you don’t know it’s there, and this is what you need to do to shift it.” But I don’t know if people would appreciate that. So I don’t do it. But literally, I can turn my ear on and it just becomes this. I can i- I can tell people their whole story. I figured it out when I was in my 30s.

I thought everybody could hear seven layers, everybody could do what I could do. And I was at a training in Texas and a, I had a young man do a role play, and he did a role play and I went, “Oh, I get it. You fell in love with a girl and you moved to Texas to be with her, but y’all broke up and you don’t know what you’re gonna do.

You think you’re gonna move back to Maryland, but you don’t really wanna go back to Ma…” You know, I ran off this whole thing, and he looked at me and he said, “How did you know that?” And I said, “Did I get it right?” I knew I had because it had been in align– I, it had aligned. And he said, “Yeah.” And I looked in the room and everybody was a little freaked and I said, “Did y’all hear what I just identified?”

And they said, “Now we do.” So I spent the next decade quantifying, identifying what I was hearing with audiences, is that what you processed? And I’ve not missed it yet. And so that means the audience is processing what I’m identifying and they hear it after the fact. So they’re hearing it, they just haven’t been obsessed with it –

Clare Wood: Yeah

Tracy Goodwin: like me.

Clare Wood: Something you said before, and I, I was actually thinking that it must be terribly challenging in interpersonal relationships to be switching it off when that’s what’s naturally happening for you. I know- Yeah … when I’m in calls with my, um, I see a psychotherapist and- Yeah … I feel the whole time, I’m like, “Don’t respond.

Don’t.” And she’s like, “Oh, you looked to the left.” And I’m like, “How did she see that?” Yeah. And she’s like, “Oh, you looked to the left when you said that,” or, “You scratched your nose,” or… And I, I consciously I’m trying not to, I don’t know- Yeah … if give the clues away is the right thing, but she’s seeing it all the time.

And I was- Yeah … at the time thinking, “I wonder how she ever switches this off.” Like when she’s with her husband is she sitting there looking for all these micro movements? And I guess that- Yeah … as you mentioned, sometimes you just got to switch it off so that you aren’t overanalyzing-

Tracy Goodwin: Yeah, and the- …

Clare Wood: the situation.

Tracy Goodwin: Well, and I think some of it too is awareness. Can you imagine being my child? My poor son. You know? And we, the other day I said, “You’re lying.” And he “You’re lying.” He said, “I know.”

Clare Wood: He’s

Tracy Goodwin: done even

Clare Wood: bothered. I

Tracy Goodwin: said, “When are you gonna get it? When are you gonna get it?” I know when you’re talking to Henry, I know when you’re talking to Jill, I know.

I can hear the shifts in your voice. And so it’s an awareness, but I don’t necessarily have to do something with it.

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin: It’s, I think it’s really valuable. In fact I, I did a video earlier and I said, I did a video about how do you know when people are lying, because there’s a very telltale way you can, you can hear it.

And I said as consumers we really want to sharpen that skill because we live in a world of overnight experts, and that’s why we’re in a trust deficit, and it’s the same sound. “Oh yeah, I know, I know everything. Yeah, what do you want to know? Uh-huh. Yeah, ’cause I just watched a YouTube video on it about an hour ago but hurry up and ask me so I don’t forget it.”

And there’s a disconnect that happens in the sound. So we can hear these things, we just have never thought about it the way that I think about it, I think. And it, it really over the decades has become about patterns. When I hear that, I know what I’m going to get. When I hear that, I already know the story that’s behind it.

When I hear them do this, I know exactly where to go. And I can– I think also being able to hear the real voice becomes this North Star for me. It’s like a match. I’m going, “Okay, no, that’s not it,” and that’s how I pick tactics. Tr- say it– I want you to say it like this. I want you to use this tact- yep, there we go.

Okay, that’s your real voice. Now I want to make an imprint of that tactic.

Clare Wood: And can you explain this- But everybody’s- I’m sorry to interrupt you there.

Tracy Goodwin: No, you’re good. You’re good. You’re

Clare Wood: good. But, um, something that’s just feeling a little… So one of the things that you’re doing is helping people to use their voice differently so they feel less that they’re not throwing this mask.

But then isn’t that in and of itself a little bit inauthentic if someone… Does that make sense?

Tracy Goodwin: N- not a– it does make perfect sense, and that’s a really valid question. But what we’re chasing is true alignment of that seventh layer sound. And I love that you brought this up because this is what I see people do.

They say, “Oh, well, I’m not wearing that mask anymore.” No, I know you’re wearing a different one. You just switched masks. “Oh, I don’t do that anymore.” No, now you have the superior mask on. But if… And here’s an ex- and I think it’s really about vulnerability. Am I willing to say through the pain and the potential rejection, “Clare, I just, I don’t know”?

Or do I have to keep that mask up so your people will think I’m smart? I think that’s really what the work is about, is can I go to the– in true alignment, I am a smart aleck. I should– I said, I had chatGPT analyze my voice the other day, not from a sound perspective, but this is how I talk to people perspective, and I’m very direct, very no-nonsense.

I don’t… I mean, I, I go straight to the chase because I had so many years of not willing to go there, and I wasn’t really serving people. And I thought it was hilarious that it picked that up in my writing. But am I willing to be that, or do I have to be nice because I don’t want your people to think I’m hateful?

Who am I? And then we get this really cool piece of who am I in my purest form? And this is another layer of the whole thing. Am I really frustrated and angry in this moment? That’s not a mask. Or am I always being defensive because I don’t want you to see who I really am, so I– I’m just keeping it real, Clare.

I’m keeping it real twenty-four/seven, okay? Do you have a problem with that?” Now, that’s a wound. I don’t want a wound, I wanna see who you are. It’s really interesting. I was talking to a coach of mine one time because I, you know, I have this whole posse of coaches at all times and I said, “A lot of people don’t talk to me, and it really bothers me.

People in my building don’t talk to me, and I don’t know why.” And she said, “Seriously?” And I said, “Seriously. I want to talk to people.” And she said, “They can see that you see them, and they’re not ready to be seen.” And I think that’s really what we’re ultimately talking about. Am I w- am– have I done the work, have I done the work in the psychology of my voice to click off this call and you don’t like me?

Am I willing to show up as who I really am and run the risk that you think I’m stupid when I get off this call? And if I’m not, then there’s going to be places where I’m going to somehow protect myself. So yeah, we can go from mask to mask to mask, but what we’re ultimately chasing is who are you? You’ll see it all the time.

Here’s a, here’s a daily example. Somebody’s gonna see this today over in Australia where y’all are just  starting your day and they’re gonna laugh when you get people, “So excited to see you.” Yeah, sounds like it. Why don’t you go lick some cardboard instead? Because we don’t wanna- if I say, “Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to see you, Clare,” oh, I might sound too emotional or like a silly schoolgirl, and then her people won’t think I’m professional, and then I’m gonna look like an idiot.

So instead I’m going to go, “Clare, thank you for having me on the show.” That’s what I’m chasing is what is that? That’s what’s in that seventh layer of sound is that fullest expression, that total sarcasm, that sadness that you feel, that understanding that if you reveal that you may get stomped on again.

But I want you to reveal it because that’s what authenticity really is, and it’s that willingness to go there and be seen and be okay if they judge you and reject you and you don’t belong. That’s okay. You showed up as yourself and you served someone really well in doing that because you were never here to serve the ones that wanna kick you down anyway

Clare Wood: And so if someone in their core, and we get to their truest voice, is angry or something-

Tracy Goodwin: yeah

what,

Clare Wood: what, what, when we pull those masks off and that’s them- Yeah … at their authentic core, how do we use this unmasking- Yeah … to be con- helping them to get extra sales? Or does it mean that they’re attracting a different kind of buyer into their world?

Tracy Goodwin: Well, they’re not angry at the core. They’re wounded at the core.

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin: Yeah. And, a- and there’s five wounds behind… So when… And I figured this about… I didn’t figure this out, that I was hearing this, until a few decades ago, a decade or so ago. The last sound I hear before I hear the real voice is the level of worthiness a human feels. And right before that, I always consistently, without question, it’s five wounds every single time.

Fear of judgment, fear of rejection, fear of abandonment, sense of belonging, and worth, every single time. So the person may have a moment of anger, but if everything is angry, they feel like they don’t belong, and we’ve got to look at that wound. I’ll give you another example. When I was working with my certification students and I have them audit voices, I brought in a man’s voice, and every one of them went, “Oh, that guy is wearing the voice mask of defense.”

And I said, “No, he’s not. No, he- there’s no way.” And I started to think, “Am I missing it?” Every one of them. It was a momentary response. When I showed them the body of work, they could then see that it was a momentary response to what had been spoken to him, but at the core, he was not defensive. So in this anger example, I would immediately start looking at this person.

I would probably immediately go to not belonging. And so there’s a pretty gaping wound of nobody wants me. Nobody… I don’t fit in anywhere, and that’s fine. And what happens is it becomes a part of who we are, so we don’t even recognize it anymore, and we’ll start saying, “Well, I’m just angry.” No, you’re not.

That is not who you are. That is conditioning that created a wound, that created a voice story, that created a voice mask, and you took that on as a, as part of your identity, and the voice plays out the wrong identity 99% of the time because we’re assigned the wrong identity. I was assigned failure identity.

My siblings needed me to be a failure. “Oh, well, you’re such a waste. You’re a failure.” And one day I went, in this work, I went I don’t think I’m supposed to be a failure. Hold on, I don’t, I don’t– I gotta look at that. And in that process, and I was well into my 30s, maybe even early 40s when I figured out that piece of the puzzle, and I wasn’t supposed to be that.

But you know what happened as long as I was that? I belonged. They liked me because me being a failure made them feel good. So I would go in and I would be a vocal failure and a victim and all of this, but it was not who I was. And I had to be willing to go, “Okay, I’m not gonna be that anymore, but can I be okay if they walk away?”

And I got okay with that, and I started showing up non-failure. I started showing up wild success, and they didn’t walk away. But we don’t know this, and we just play out because we’re so afraid of being wounded again, those five voice wounds. So, “Well, I’m just gonna take this on and I’m just angry and you’re just an idiot and you don’t know anything,” because there’s so much safety in that.

I won’t get wounded again

And how,

Clare Wood: how does this work-

Tracy Goodwin: Make sense?

Clare Wood: Oh, yeah. Abso- i- yeah, it’s, it’s fascinating to me. I- So deep. It’s so deep. It’s

Tracy Goodwin: so deep.

Clare Wood: I’m really curious. So there’s obviously deeper work as well, deeper than the voice that underpins all of this work. So are you suggesting to your students or your clients that they are getting into those wounds and he- and healing that from a psychological perspective or from a, you know, where it sits in their body?

Or can you work just on the voice in exclusivity?

Tracy Goodwin: I do not work just on the voice and exclu- e- exclusivity because I find the results don’t stick, and this is, this is my issue with typical voice coaching. And I, you know, I know I keep going back to stories, but I think that’s the best way for me to explain it, where I’m coming from.

I worked with a man who walked in the door and he said, “I already know you’re gonna tell me to slow down. The last five voice coaches told me to slow down.” And I said, “I don’t know if I’m gonna tell you that or not.” Turns out growing up, at the dinner table, children weren’t allowed to speak. Mom and dad talked.

And then when it was his turn to talk, children’s turn to talk, dad would look at his watch and go, “You have one minute. Go.” And so he had to hurry up and say everything he wanted, and so there was a voice story in there. I don’t, in the body of work, do a– I don’t think we have to do a big deep dive. I don’t think we have to do 15 years.

I think I can instantly identify the sound, and then we have to look at… We’re actually looking at subconscious programming. We’re looking at nervous system. A lot of people, there’s a nervous system imprint around, “I have to control what’s coming,” and that plays out vocally because I have an alcoholic father.

And so safety and nervous system are two big pieces of it. Identity is a piece of it, and then ultimately through tactics, how are we shifting that pattern in the body of the voice? And sometimes I start inside out, and sometimes I start outside in. If I have a particularly stubborn voice story that wants to hold on, then I’m gonna give a tactic that will override what’s…

’cause they’re connected in the muscle memory of the voice and in the body of- in the mind, and the body, and the identity. So I’m getting in somehow. But if I flip that muscle memory piece, then now I can have the story released. And those internal things and those microscopic sounds, that’s what’s playing out.

You asked me something about selling earlier with the angry example. So the person that is angry or the person that is really g- wounded and is being arrogant, this is a big one. This is a big ick in selling, and this is why hard sales never ultimately worked. This is why people are, are rejecting bro marketing a lot.

“Because Clare, I’ve got the thing. I’ve got the thing, and I’m telling you, if you will just come to this webinar, you are– I’m gonna change your life, and you’re gonna know it. You’re gonna kn-” Okay. That is the same as anger. Who is going to w- want to work with that person? Well, some people will.

But years ago I did a study, and what the results of that study yielded is that pretty much everybody’s leaving 30% of their buyers behind or more. Be- and I’m talking about their people, not the outlier, “Well, they weren’t my people anyway.” They’re your people, and they want to pick you, but when you’re that angry, they don’t feel safe They’re not gonna buy.

It goes back to the story about the wom- the women that I don’t think I’m good enough. I’m not gonna hire someone if I, I, if I’m operating from, “Well, I’m not ready. She’ll eat me alive.” maybe she won’t. But you didn’t hear that sound in her voice, you just heard the protected sound So you didn’t get the right story.

A- and I will say this to my people all the time. Let’s say, so I’m intense. You and your audience have probably figured that out by now. I don’t– I’m not gonna not show up intense, but what else am I? I have got your back until the end. But yet we don’t play all of our notes because we play our protection sound.

And my protection sound could be arrogance, could be professional, could be superior, could be that, instead of showing you that I am a nurturer, that I am dramatic and intense. I was told my whole life, “Why are you so dramatic?” Mm, because I am. And when I started being dramatic, guess what happened?

My people went, “Ooh, I like that. I like her.” “I like that. I want that. I want some of that.” And so we alter and we actually run our people off because we’re trying to alter for everybody. I’m gonna al- I’m gonna keep every- I don’t want anybody to get their feelings hurt. No, hurt their feelings if that’s…

Talk to your people. You have to show up as you and talk to your people because those other people weren’t yours anyway. They need to find the person that is right for them. And I believe that they’re already in your world because they like your content, they, there’s it’s like what you were saying, “Yeah, I like ’em, but I don’t ultimately buy from them.”

I did a study about 15 years ago that showed me that they show up in your world to hear what the experience is that they’re going to have in your world. They’re seeking an experience. And if we don’t deliver that, which the experience is who I really am, i- it’s… And I hear this all the time. If I were to get on this call or a webinar and I, I, like, I don’t like vocal matching because, now, you don’t sound like this, but what if you did and I did this training or this call like this and I talked to you on this podcast and people were like, “Oh, I’m gonna sign up for her program,” and then they got in there and I’m like all like myself.

Well, that’s… First of all, they never would because they would feel the disconnect in me trying to be something I’m not. But that’s what we’re chasing. Who are you, and is your voice matching it?

Clare Wood: It’s so big and challenging and I really c- it sounds to me that you, th- this work would then have to be ongoing because I assume that-

Tracy Goodwin: Mm

Clare Wood: as you learn or, or heal one mask that potentially others might pop up, and so this is work that you need to stick with.

Tracy Goodwin: I’m gonna give that a yes and that, people ask me that a lot, and I believe what happens in the main body of work when we rewrite the psychology of the voice, we’re basically doing a reset.

We’re getting you back in alignment with who you really are. We’re rewriting the voice stories in your head. We’re stabilizing the nervous system. We’re getting you back in alignment with identity. We’re doing a, a, we’re getting you set. And then when life lifes, now your core is no longer a foundation of sand, it’s now a foundation of rock, and you’ve got tactics where you can shift it.

An example would be you wanna know who’s getting divorced? I’ll tell ya, because their voice shifts. But now- You can tell us … yeah. Oh, oh yeah. Oh yeah. I can t- I know.

Clare Wood: Is there

Tracy Goodwin: a celebrity- I know who’s getting- … that

Clare Wood: you can give us the secret heads up?

Tracy Goodwin: Tell us!

Clare Wood: I

Tracy Goodwin: don’t listen, I don’t listen to a lot of them, but I will tell you this.

Recently I did a video and I star- I started doing video audits of sounds and celebrities, and I did one on Gary Vee, and I did one on Alex Hormozi. Neither of them are getting divorced, but I started pointing out the things that I hear, and of course people love it. They go wild. But when mentors of mine were getting divorced, I knew it months before-

Clare Wood: Wow

Tracy Goodwin: they said anything. But- They’re owning those sounds. They’re able to sit in the real sound or they’ve got a tactic now to move out of it. They’re never going back, all the way back to the foundation of sand.

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin: Because the foundation of sand goes all the way back to the beginning of our life, sometimes even the womb.

And we’re, we’re not operating, we’re just … The subconscious just didn’t get a memo that we don’t have to protect anymore. We’re just playing out the habit. I’m literally working in the space of habit. “Well, I just get quiet when John comes in.” Why? Why are you handing him your authority? Why are you doing that?

He doesn’t, why did he get to, why does he get to know? Well, when I’ve rewritten the story, then that story isn’t alive anymore. And when we’ve put something new in the muscle memory, these are the most exciting pieces of the work for me, when the people ring me up and they go, “Well, John walked in. Then I said, ‘John, I’m gonna need to stop you right there because you’re not listening to me.’

And I felt good about it, Trace.” I’m like, “Yeah, that’s alignment.” You didn’t hand your power over. You didn’t have to be a peacekeeper and vocally be what they wanted you to be. You didn’t have to dim your light. You get to choose if you wanna do that, but it’s no longer an automatic byproduct of that second grade teacher that told you you would get accolades for being a good girl You are a good girl.

That is a given. But you have to operate from that place. So it’s this giant permission slip in a lot of ways.

Clare Wood: Wow.

Tracy Goodwin: Which is cool.

Clare Wood: And you, you were talking there about there was something that triggered the conversation about AI that I don’t think that we finished out. Ah. ‘Cause I feel in- Yeah … today’s day and age- Mm

we have to have this conversation. So we are hearing voice that’s artificially been created through the various AI tools that we are using. I want to start there. What, what are you hearing when you’re hearing- Yeah … those artificially synthesized voices?

Tracy Goodwin: Yeah. You want to talk about ick, Clare. I got on the call with…

Well, I didn’t want to look at it for a long time because honestly I was scared of what I would find.

Clare Wood: Yeah.

Tracy Goodwin: I was really afraid that there would be no difference, and I wasn’t ready to face that. So I was really… It took me a long time to start. Everybody was asking me, “What do I hear? What do I hear?

What do I hear?” And I’m like, “I don’t know. I don’t listen.” And it was when I got on a call with a moving company, I was moving, and sh- and I… And she was nice, and I thought, “Wow, she’s really helpful.” That was all it took. Right there I went, “I feel nothing. This is a fabrication.” And that got me into the work.

I did a talk. You may have seen this talk. Were you, you, if you were at BBD Live- I was

Clare Wood: at BBD Live. Not last year, the year before.

Tracy Goodwin: Okay. So in my talk last year, I brought in AI Tracy and real Tracy, and I played them side by side, and that was a big part of my talk, and it was stunning. And it was all about not the fabrication of sound, but there was no feeling in the frequency of AI.

So I don’t get real bogged down in frequency talk, but that is the truth of what’s happening. You hear my sound before you decide, and that’s why you decide if you’re going to listen to me or not. AI doesn’t have that frequency, so AI cannot make us feel the way a human voice feels. We feel the vibration.

That’s where we understand the imprint of who you are. AI has no imprint. It sounds nice, it sounds smooth, it sounds slick. But you see, even when I talk to you like this, it’s very hard to know exactly who I am. Now, you still do because I have a human imprint. But that’s- Really problematic. And what we’re already seeing, I’m not doing anything specifically in research.

I’m leading research right now around Hashimoto’s disease and being silenced. I’m not doing anything in the AI space, but I’m familiar with the research that’s going on in the AI space, and what it’s yielding are things like the big research companies coming out and saying, “By 2030, the most critical thing you’re going to be able to do is use your voice,” is to be able to communicate like a real person and sound like a real person.

Because people are already aware of it, they’re already repulsed by it, they’re already sick of it, and they’re already differentiating real versus not. Now, will AI ultimately be able to build a frequency? I hope not, but I don’t know. I, I– That is what I don’t know. But you– it’s no… And here’s the crazy part.

AI is no different than a voice mask. As soon as I put on my professional voice mask, I have now disconnected from you. You no longer exist to me because everything is now about me. And do I sound smart? And do I sound good? And do you like me? And am I professional? And are you going to find out I don’t know?

AI creates the same feeling as a voice mask. I no longer can feel you So in the wor- uh, so I’ve lived my whole lifetime for this moment, if you wanna know the truth. I have been heavily in the trenches of this work for years, leading research studies, doing data collection, uncovering things that are in the imprint of the psychology of the voice.

And people have been… A lot of people have been interested, and a lot of people have been, “Oh, yeah, I was in choir in high school.” Because it it just didn’t, there wasn’t… It didn’t mean as much then as it does now. And now people have been burned. People don’t know what’s real anymore. People are seeking experts.

People are not seeking polished. I grew up in the Walter Cronkite days, where everything was beautiful. No, that’s not the world we live in anymore. People are going to determine your realness, and that means multiple things, by your voice, and that is the way we’re headed. And I couldn’t be more grateful, because I think it’s terrifying that we could live in a fabricated world like that.

Clare Wood: Well, this is what scares me a bit. I- I’m a couple of hundred episodes into my podcast. There is so much of my voice out there.

Tracy Goodwin: Mm-hmm.

Clare Wood: I’m curious if they’ll, uh, to your point, like, will they ever be able to completely replicate the frequencies and the melodies and all of the things that make my voice mine?

Tracy Goodwin: And that I don’t know, and that’s what scares me too. And I, it’s moving and shifting and improving so fast. I don’t think, I believe they will ever be able to do that. And the reason I think that is because I believe the voice is the orchestra of the heart. I believe that my voice could never be like your  voice.

My voice imprint is based on my life, and am I willing to share those sounds with you? AI is never going to be able to have that soul as far as what I can see right now. I also think people have gotten super savvy to be able to tell the difference. There are other people that can almost do it faster than me because they pay more attention.

It’s like the AI writing. There are people that can instantly tell when it was written in AI. I c- I can’t totally tell. It takes me a minute, but I think because the voice is the sound of the soul and AI has, does not have one, I right now I believe that they will, they’ll be able to get close, but they’ll never be able to fully do it.

At least that’s my hope. Yeah. I feel the same. And so if people are listening and are really fascinated by this work and curious to un- unmask themselves to really find what their voice stories are and to really help to shift their voice so that they can uncover that true authentic voice and grow their sales or build more connection or whatever it might be that they’re chasing, how can they continue this work with you?

So they can find me at captivatetheroom.com is where you wanna go. I do small groups, and I do some one-to-one coaching, and then of course I have my certification program. But they can also start with captivatetheroom.com/selfaudit because I’ve got a whole huge list that they can look at, and they s- can start going, “Oh, I’m doing that.

That’s what I’m doing. Okay. Oh, I’m doing that, and I’m doing that.” it’s a 42-point checklist that they can start with before they ever even talk to me.

Clare Wood: Perfect. Okay. Well, I’ll put the link for that, your socials, and your website in the show notes for today’s episode. Tracy, thank you so much for coming on and sharing.

This is a conversation I’ve really enjoyed, and I’m sure the listeners will as well.

Tracy Goodwin: Well, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.

Thank you so much for tuning in to today’s episode of the Intentional Money Show. If you’re ready for more profit, come find me on Instagram at clare_wood_coach. Thanks so much for tuning into the podcast, and I’ll chat to you again next week.

* Transcript created by AI – may contain errors or omissions from original podcast audio