Episode 154

Charging your worth as a spiritual entrepreneur

with Brigit Esselmonth

Many business owners feel guilty charging for their services, especially if they offer services relating to spirituality or if they are spiritual people.

In this episode, I chat with Brigit Esselmont about how to feel confident selling your services AND changing your worth as a spiritual entrepreneur. 

 

In this Episode:

  • 01.40: How Biddy Tarot evolved from a hobby to a 7-figure business
  • 09.37: Using tarot and practical actions in your business 
  • 15.26: Being open to receiving money as spiritual entrepreneur
  • 27.15: Breaking through limiting beliefs as a spiritual woman in business

 

Links:

 

Brigit’s Bio

As the Founder of Biddy Tarot, she turned her love for Tarot into an abundant, 7-figure business that employs 15 people and serves over 15 million Tarot lovers every year. Prior to that, she had a 15+ year career as a management and human resource consultant, working with Australia’s top companies.

Brigit has been featured in The Oprah Magazine, Huffington Post, Body+Soul, Mind Body Green, and Refinery29, appeared on numerous podcasts including Being Boss, Smart Passive Income, and Mind Body Musing, and has appeared on stage in front of live audiences across the US and Australia.

She holds a Masters degree in Human Resource Management and is a Master Practitioner in Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Hypnosis.

When she’s not coaching, teaching, or flipping Tarot cards, Brigit loves spending time with her two daughters and husband on the Sunshine Coast, Australia.

 

Transcription              

Many business owners and particularly spiritual entrepreneurs can often feel a sense of charging their worth for their services or even charging at all. In today’s episode, I chat to Brigit Esselmont, who is the founder of Biddy Tarot, the largest online tarot card service, about why there is no shame in making good money from your spiritual gifts. Whether you are a spiritual entrepreneur or any service based provider, I know that you will love the value that she provides in today’s episode.

 

Hello, and welcome to The Clare Wood Podcast where myself, and incredible guests share about money mindset, financial successes, and how to manage your money in a fun and practical way to create wealth and abundance in both your business and your life. I’m your host, Clare Wood. I’m a business coach and a money mentor. I strongly believe that money has the power to positively change the world. I can’t wait to help you transform your mindset around money, create a love of numbers and build the business of your dreams so you can live a life of financial freedom, giving and global impact.

 

CLARE:

Welcome to The Clare Wood Podcast, Brigit. It is fantastic to have you here, and today, we’re going to be diving into the world of spirituality and money. But before we dive into that, I would love to ask you if you wouldn’t mind to introduce yourself to the listeners.

 

How Biddy Tarot evolved from a hobby to a 7-figure business

 

BRIGIT:

Awesome. Thanks, Clare. So exciting to be here with you and everyone listening. I am Brigit Esselmont. I am founder of Biddy Tarot and we are, I would say, well, we are the world’s leading online resource for people who read tarot. I am super passionate about tarot as a personal development and growth tool and as a way for accessing our intuition rather than being about fortune tellers and crystal balls and all of that stuff that we see in the movies. So I’m really about modernising tarot and bringing it into the mainstream. And we do that with our online courses and our membership and books and decks and everything you can think of that’s related to tarot.

CLARE:

Isn’t that exciting? Does it feel a bit surreal to say that you are the largest online platform for tarot in the world?

BRIGIT:

It’s trippy. Yeah. It’s weird.

CLARE:

Well, I had the pleasure of meeting you recently at a conference. And as I shared with you there, I’m only pretty new to the world of tarot. But as soon as I was taught a little bit about tarot and how to use tarot in the business, everyone told me to go to Biddy Tarot. So I have been on the Biddy Tarot website so many times checking out what a certain card says, learning to understand a bit about the meaning. And it’s really cool, this platform that you have created. And I can’t wait to dive into it with you. So maybe let’s start at the beginning of your business journey. You’ve obviously brought a wildly successful business now. Did you always intend for it to be this big?

BRIGIT:

No, I started in 1999 when the internet was born. And at that time, it was just a way for me to learn to read tarot and just do something fun like learn how to code HTML and create a website and start just sharing what I was learning. So yeah, for a good 10 plus years it was just a passion and a hobby with no real vision of like, yes, this will turn into a seven figure business. I just really followed what was lighting me up and what felt really just good and fun.

CLARE:

Yeah. And so going right back then. Were you ever asking the tarot cards and saying, is this going to become a big thing or it just didn’t even cross your mind?

BRIGIT:

No, it’s funny because I’m very business minded. I’m very strategic, and I’m very intentional. And yet, when it came to the early years of my tarot practice and even going online, it just wasn’t something that I thought was even a possibility. I think the first little spark was when I read Tim Ferriss’s 4-Hour Workweek, and I thought, “Oh, okay. So everything I’ve been publishing on my little tarot website might actually have some value in it. Oh, okay. Yeah, I’ll just start putting it out there.” Even then, I didn’t have massive goals. It was more about just following those breadcrumbs and what really lit me up and felt good and the people were responding to.

CLARE:

Yeah. Wonderful. And so when did that start to change? At what point did you suddenly go, “Whoa, there’s a business here that I can commercialise.”

BRIGIT:

So I started doing paid readings probably around the mid 2000s. And that was really as a way, like I was learning how to read tarot. I thought wouldn’t be fun just to get paid a little bit. So I just had started getting these little dribbles of my money coming through, but we’re talking pocket money, nothing significant.

CLARE:

And you were doing them one-on-one with people who connected through the website?

BRIGIT:

Yeah. Just people that were visiting. I think I had a Yahoo Groups newsletter at that time and I was sending out a weekly tarot card and saying, “Hey, I’ve got $10 tarot readings.” And that really just got … Again, just some people were interested and I would just do these email tarot readings. And then I started to learn a little bit more about what online business could look like. I started realising the value of the information that I was sharing, but also that I was starting … I had this website and I realised if I can get some traffic to that website, maybe things will happen.

So I did some basic search engine optimization on my website and that within two or three months, I reached the top of Google. So anytime you’d search for a card, Biddy Tarot would come up. And then I saw that as a huge opportunity. I thought, “Great. How can I leverage this traffic?” Originally I thought, “Oh great, I’ll invite them to get a tarot reading with me.” But I quickly realised that people were there to learn about the cards, not necessarily to get a reading. And so I used that as an opportunity to put ads on the website and that actually is what really kick started like, “Wow, I can actually make some decent income through my website.”

And so 2012 was the year that I had generated enough revenue in my business. I could finally leave my corporate job. So I’ve been working through corporate for 15 years and had reached that 100K mark, both my corporate salary but then also my business income. And I thought, “Great, this is time.” And I think it’s really from that 2012 moment onwards that I started to have much bigger goals about what was possible for the business.

CLARE:

Wow. That’s so cool. And so share a little bit about what’s happened between 2012 to 2022. Where’s your business at now from starting at the $100,000 mark?

BRIGIT:

Yeah. So between all of that time, I was growing a team. I was growing out our product suite. So I was adding in online courses, our Biddy Tarot community, a book publishing deal plus self-publish books and so on. So basically if you go very fast through those 10 years where we are now, so before and the after. Where we are now, we have over 15 million visitors to our website every year, which just blows my mind. We have thousands and thousands of students in our programs. We also offer a certification program so that way you can become a certified Biddy tarot advisor and we’ve had hundreds of people get their certification in tarot, which is great.

And we’re now a global virtual team of, I think, 17 at last count. So yeah, it’s radically transformed and evolved over that time. And I think what’s been the most rewarding part is for me, I’m a very spiritual person, but I’m also very business savvy and I love business. And being able to combine both spirituality and business is personally very, very rewarding and that’s very empowering for me. And then equally, I really enjoy this opportunity to empower others with tarot and their intuition and potentially to go on and create their own businesses and earn an income in a similar way that I’ve earned an income over these many years.

CLARE:

Yeah. Incredible. So let’s talk a little bit about using spirituality in business, but some people listening maybe it’s something they’ve never … maybe they’ve never had a tarot reading. They’re not really sure how it works.

So can you share a little bit about how you use the tools of tarot and combine it with the practical actions that people need to take in business?

 

Using tarot and practical actions in your business

 

BRIGIT:

Yeah. So I use tarot quite a lot actually as a business owner and a founder. So some of the things I might do, like at the beginning of the day, I might pull a card just to tune to like, where do I really need to focus today? Or what’s going to be … how could I impact my customers the most? Where can I have this greatest contribution? So it’s a really great tool for just focusing in on where you can direct your energy and do it very intentionally.

Another thing that I really love doing is using tarot for goal setting. You think, “Okay, what kind of income do I want to earn this year?” And you might have a goal that’s comfortable. You might have a goal that’s a little bit out there. And then one that’s extreme, that would be life changing. And then you can actually pull cards for each of these goals and check-in like, what is most in alignment with my own soul’s purpose and soul mission? That way it really connects you to, what is part of my highest good? What’s part of my mission and destiny and so on. And even just those little examples, just ways to see how tarot just brings more intentionality and more alignment in everything that you do, whether it is business, relationships, career, like anything. That’s the beauty of it.

CLARE:

And do you ever pull a card and think, “Nah, I don’t agree with that.”

BRIGIT:

I do. I do. And then it always bites me in the bum later. I’ve had times where I pull the card and go, “Oh, that’s not what I wanted.” Or I might want to share an inspirational message with my community and shuffle and I pull this card of like exhaustion. I’m like, “That wasn’t quite the message I wanted to share.” But I’ve learned just to trust the process, because even though at the time you might go, “Oh, I did not want that card or that doesn’t make any sense.” I know from my experience that give it a couple of weeks, you’re like, “Oh, okay. Yep. I get it.” It does all come into fruition and with that benefit of hindsight and letting something evolve, you can go, “Okay, now I get where that integrated into my life.”

CLARE:

Yeah. And I think sometimes there can be a perception that combining spirituality and business means that you’re not taking action. It means that you’re … For example, when I talk about manifestation, people think, “Oh, you just sit back and don’t do anything.” And it’s not that at all, is it?

BRIGIT:

Yeah. I think there’s a perception of tarot that it tells you what’s going to happen in the future. And if you are approaching the cards from that way, sure. You might be like, “Oh, will I buy the house? Yes, I will. Oh, great. I don’t have to do anything.” But I don’t really buy into that. Because I think tarot or any kind of self-inquiry will say, “Okay, will I buy the house?” Well, it’s heading towards that. That’s what you desire. That’s what you want. But you need to take some action to actually get there. And we all have this beautiful gift of free will. And so I see tarot as really helping us go, okay, if you really want that house, this is where you’re currently sitting and some of the things that you might need to adjust or change or your mindset may need to change so that you can then achieve that goal. So yeah, I don’t really buy into this whole idea of just real passive sitting back. That said, I think sometimes there’s this … You might notice it too. There’s a delicate balance between letting something happen and be in flow versus this pushing and striving. I want that house. Oh my gosh. Okay. I’ve got to get the house. Oh, you start looking up things. And like, where’s the house? Why can’t I find the house? In this pushing mode, which is also out of alignment just as being completely passive is out of alignment. And I think, yeah, just that nice balance between allowing, but also going with that flow and being part of that whole system that leads to that desired outcome.

CLARE:

Yeah. I love that. That resonates exactly with me. I think that sometimes I see people who are like, “Oh, I’m manifesting it.” I’m like, “You can be manifesting your soulmate and still go on to try and meet someone.” If you sit in your house like maybe someone will come knock on the door, but it’s pretty … you still need take action and meet halfway. But on the flip side again, I see people who are so focused on that goal, whether it’s something in business or personal life that they become obsessed with it. And I know it’s something that’s happened to me in my journey, moving into a house at our dream location was that I got to the point where I was refreshing the page on realestate.com.au so much that I’m like …that desperate energy isn’t actually allowing the outcome that I knew was coming. So I love that you’ve shared that.

So another question that I want to talk to you about when it comes to spirituality is about, of course, my favorite topic money. So people can have a real objections who work in the space of spirituality to receiving money. And I’ve witnessed this firsthand with clients that I’ve worked with over the years, who are things like healers. And I’m wondering what your thoughts are about being able to receive financial rewards when you work in the space or spirituality.

 

Being open to receiving money as spiritual entrepreneur

 

BRIGIT:

Well, let me start by saying some people choose not to be financially rewarded for sharing their gifts, and I honour and respect that. So if you’ve made a very conscious choice to go, “You know what? I don’t want to accept payment.” That’s okay. I’m not saying that you should be accepting payment, but here’s the thing. I often hear this. I hear this all the time about, “Oh, you’ve been divinely gifted and therefore you should treat this as your gift, and you should never charge money for something that’s been bestowed upon you.” And I say phooey to that. Here’s the thing, heart surgeons have been gifted with the ability to get into there and do some very fine work. Engineers have been gifted with this ability to be able to build amazing buildings. Right? I could list every single career, but do we expect that they won’t take payment? No. Because here’s the thing. It really comes down to value creation. So no matter what we do, whatever our career or profession might be, we’re always creating some kind of value. And in this economy, in the way in our system that we are in right now, value is often honored by finance or money, a payment, a cash payment of some kind.

So if I do a tarot reading for you and I create value and I give you insight, maybe you ask me about career and I give you some level of insight that helps you change your entire career path to something that’s now so much more fulfilling and rewarding and engaging. You’re going to value that. And there’s a dollar amount that can be placed with that value. So whenever I talk with my students who might be having some of that, like it’s just the limiting belief of like, “Oh, I can’t charge money for my spiritual gifts.” I really try and get people to focus on what’s the value that you’re creating, what’s that transformation, because that value has value, right? And that’s why we receive payment because we’re creating massive value.

CLARE:

And so how do you put a price on that? Because this is something a lot of clients of mine have really struggled with when I challenge them and say, “Well, why couldn’t you charge more? You have a massive lineup of people who want to work with you.” Clearly, the demand is there and they feel really uncomfortable with determining what the value that they place on these. And I’m curious because obviously with your courses, do you ever sit there and think, “What if I charge double or triple?” And how do you determine for you what feels in alignment from a pricing perspective?

BRIGIT:

Yeah. I really come back to like, what’s the experience or the connection that I’m making for my customers and my clients? So if I can create an experience where someone can go … Let’s say even the certification program. When we certify a tarot reader and advisor, we’re taking them from like, “Oh, I just knew how to read the cards.” to like, “Oh, I now have the skills and abilities and the confidence and the experience and all of the things to now be able to go out and help people and have an impact.”

Now, what dollar value do I put on that? I’ve got to think about that experience. What’s that worth to the customer or the student? Not necessarily like, what do I think I can get? Or oh, what’s Mary Jo doing down street? And oh, you can get that course on Udemy. Oh, you can get a certificate for $5. I don’t care about all of that stuff. I’ve got to really tune into like what’s the transformation, the experience that I’m creating and then placing a dollar value on that.

And look, at the end of the day, pricing is subjective, isn’t it? You can really choose any price for something. And it also depends like how you position it. And the price, price even tells a story. Right? So if you have a certification program that’s $30,000, someone engaging in that is going to have different expectations and perhaps different experience to someone that might be paying say $300 for that. So I think it’s also thinking about not just what transformations happening, but what transformation do you want to create and what’s the pricing that supports that, if that makes sense.

CLARE:

Oh, 100%. And I think also who the target market is. I remember once I was doing a money mindset talk and someone was a hairdresser. And she said, “There’s only so much you can charge for hair.” And I was like, “Whoa, okay. Firstly, I have paid an extreme range in terms of what I’ve paid to have my hair done.” And I said, “What do you think Kim Kardashian pays her hairdresser?” And I know that that sounds an extreme example, but there is always people who are charging a real premium price point depending on who they’re serving as well.

BRIGIT:

Yeah. And I’m just thinking it comes back to, what does the customer really value? Maybe for Kim Kardashian, she really values that she can get … As soon as she gets one gray hair, her hairdresser is there immediately, right? And arrives at her house and is the absolute cream of the crop and so on. So again, if you’re thinking about what value are you creating, the price can adapt with that value. And there’s always flexibility and what you’re offering and how you’re showing up. And again, that huge benefit and value that you’re creating for people.

CLARE:

Yeah. Love that. And I think that’s something very important to consider is that it’s okay to charge a price point that feels in alignment for you, because different people are going to perceive it differently. And I really do think that there’s a place in the market for everyone as well. And sometimes, people love to serve people, a certain kind of person, other people like to serve another kind of audience, it’s really about defining who that is and pricing appropriately.

BRIGIT:

Yeah. Actually, I wanted to pick up to something you said in there just triggered something. And that choosing a price that feels in alignment, because when I was reading tarot professionally, I started $10 for a reading for an hour long reading, and that quickly started to increase. But there was a point at which I had a long wait list. So high demand. I was starting to feel burnt out. So I really didn’t want to take on that many readings. And I just kept pushing my price up and up. And it got to a point it was sitting at about $300 US for a reading. And what I found was happening at that point, I did not feel really in alignment with it at that point. And equally, I found that my clients had this unrealistic expectation of what would happen with that $300. I’ve had the same experience where I’ve approached it kind of a celebrity psychic and I’ve paid $1,000 for the reading and I’ve expected this thing, and then it’s not been met. So I think you’ve really got to pay attention to about not pushing it so far that you actually then start to feel like, “Oh, this feels icky. I can’t really talk about it without feeling proud or it doesn’t feel right for my clients.” So there’s, again, a balance between the two.

CLARE:

But the point that we were highlighting here is that you can be a spiritual person. You can be a good person and charge for your services and/or charge a premium price.

BRIGIT:

Absolutely. In fact, I encourage it. Because again, and what it does is if you’re charging $20 bucks for a reading versus $200, the $200 really sets a tone of like I’m taking myself seriously. I take this reading seriously. I’m going to give it all I’ve got. For me, it’s about setting a really solid standard. And I love seeing our students going out there and charging a good amount for their readings. Because it’s also just changing public perception of that tarot readings are valuable. Intuitive insight does have a value on it. It’s not just an airy fairy froufrou thing. It’s actually important.

CLARE:

Do you think there’s ever a point where it becomes greedy or do you think it just totally depends on the business owner? I imagine that some people, especially in the spiritual space, can see someone succeeding and then they step into their next level of growth and their next level. And they might say, she shouldn’t be getting rich from something that’s helping people. What are your thoughts around that?

BRIGIT:

Look, I think at the end of the day, people are going to have limiting beliefs no matter what you do, right? And will project that onto you. But I just think of the … in my own personal case, I’m putting onto me and how that feels. I’ve helped thousands of people. And I’m not saying this to brag, but I’m thinking so many people that have gone through my programs have had such a massive transformation and it has changed the course of their life and it has opened up something inside of them that they probably would never have accessed or maybe they would access it a later time. But that is just huge. And so I just see it as a reward or an honoring or an acknowledgement of that value that has been created for them.

So if that’s coming towards me or like Biddy Tarot effectively, our company, that’s okay. Then the next piece is, am I a good custodian for that wealth? Am I consciously and intentionally distributing that wealth and that money in a way that is ecological and holistic? And yes, I am because 17 people. We donate a portion of our profits to charitable causes and we invest a lot of that money back into the customer experience and new products and so on. So it’s an interesting question, but I think that it often comes back down to … if you’re a founder asking yourself this, am I being greedy by up leveling and so on? I think it comes back to self-worth and being really clear about, what is your mission in this lifetime and who are you here to impact? How are you going to impact? And are you willing to receive the gratitude and the thanks and the honoring and acknowledgement for that and getting really clear about that internally?

CLARE:

I think, especially as a woman in business, that it’s really inspiring to see other women business leaders succeeding. And I love when people can step in and confidently own their worth, the value that they’re giving to the world. And it really empowers and inspires others to say, “Well, I can do the same and it’s okay.” And I think that you hit the nail on the head when you said other people’s beliefs.

And I’d love to ask you a bit of a question around this, actually. So you’ve implied when someone has that perception that has to do with their belief system, their limiting beliefs around what you should be doing in business, what you should be doing as a spiritual woman in business, have you ever had a time where this has become a bit of an issue for you? And if so, how did you navigate through it?

 

Breaking through limiting beliefs as a spiritual woman in business

 

BRIGIT:

Well, I think it happens a bit, but I just don’t get to see it anymore, which is great. Because I learned very early on, actually when we first launched out Biddy Tarot Certification program in 2017, there was a lot of pushback then. It’s like, “Who are you to charge a thousand dollars for a piece of paper?” It’s not a piece of paper, it’s experience. But at that time I was like, “Oh my god, who am I? Am I … ” I went into like my own self-worth, I was questioning it. Right? And what I learned at that time is I can’t be the recipient of that type of negative feedback, because what I found myself doing was I was actually then censoring myself and holding back and questioning, am I doing the right thing? And I was blinkering off to all of the amazing stuff that our program was achieving.

And instead of focusing on the 99.9% of people who this was just the perfect fit for, I was focused on that 0.1% who was upset. So that was actually the point where I switched it and I have my team now connecting with people who may be struggling financially and maybe it is a little bit out of reach. So we have really compassionate kind ways of connecting with our customers. We have things like payment plans. That’s another option. We have plenty of free content as well. There are many ways that we can still serve others who may … whether it’s perceived or real have limited finances. There are many ways we can serve with free content. It’s just a different experience to, if you’re having a more premium paid experience with us.

CLARE:

Yeah. I love that. I have seen in the mindset space, which is what I do that there’s a lot of attacks on, “It’s not mindset, it’s this, it’s that.” And I get really triggered by it because I’m like, “Don’t you see that this is mindset. The fact that you’re perceiving someone else’s success in a negative way is a perception thing. And that’s not at all to take away from the very real blocks that some people do have because of their upbringing and their race and all of those different kind of factors that come into play. But it is saying that you can choose how you are looking at things, and it’s not helpful to take down other people’s success, because ultimately that comes from your own desire to succeed.

BRIGIT:

Yes. Yeah. And look, I’ve learned over the years that I kind of have to have a buffer. Maybe you’ve experienced this too. You just have to accept the bit, like the more influential you become or the more people that you reach, there’s always going to be some people projecting onto you. And I think I remember actually Denise Duffield-Thomas talking about like, “Look, you can project whatever you want on me, if it’s something great, if it’s something horrible, I’m here, I’ll take it. I just know it’s part of the game.” And I do the same. Well, I want to transform people, but also I’m not here to try and shift someone’s mindset about money if they’re projecting and saying, “You’re charging too much.” Well, that’s okay. I trust that you believe that I’m charging too much, but you probably find someone else’s a better fit somewhere else. We’re all good. It’s okay. I can be me. You can be you. We’re all happy.”

CLARE:

Yeah. Something I always think about when I’m talking to clients about this topic is I say, “People hate Kate Middleton.” And I’m like, “No matter who you are, you are going to have people that don’t like you for whatever reason and no matter how kind, empathetic, you’re not going to make everyone happy all the time.” And that’s just part of the journey of growth in business, isn’t it? Is it’s learning to go, “Well, that’s not going to go away. So how can I navigate through other people’s projections?”

BRIGIT:

Yes. Yeah. And look, I think the first few times that you experience it, it stings. It stings like anything. I remember going through so much torment receiving those … the first kind of like, “Oh, who are you?” All this kind of stuff, but you build up that resilience over time. And then yes, that sort of buffer really comes into it. But the experience of feeling hurt and upset, that’s real as well I think particularly when you’re starting. It doesn’t have to be there all the time though. Because as time progresses, things will get much easier.

CLARE:

Yeah. I love that. I love that. So if anyone is having a listen and they are loving your vibe and what you’re all about, what’s the best way that people can connect with you and buy your products and services?

BRIGIT:

Thank you. So if you want to find out more about tarot and how that can integrate into everyday life, come check us out at biddtarot.com. And like I said, we have so many different free resources, downloads, trainings, all of those things. And if you’re a business owner and you want to connect with your business strategy from perhaps a more intuitive angle and a more aligned way, I do offer some private one-to-one mentoring over at brigit.me. 

CLARE:

I love it. Well, I’ll definitely put the links in the show notes for today’s episode for those. So thank you so much. It’s been absolutely wonderful having you on the podcast today. Thank you for your transparency talking about money, talking about your experience as a business owner. It’s been wonderful to have you here.

BRIGIT:

Awesome. Thank you, Clare. And thanks for putting this out there. I think it’s such an important message particularly women to be feeling more aligned, more confident, more comfortable with money. Because like you said earlier, the more that we can have women out there feeling great about earning money, I think that empowers the global community in so many different ways. So I love what you’re doing.

CLARE:

Thanks so much for listening. If you love this episode, please share it with your audience. And don’t forget to tag me on Instagram at @clare_wood_coach, and also make sure you hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. Have an abundant week. And I look forward to talking to you again next week.

 

About your host

Hi, I’m Clare Wood – I’m a numbers geek, a travel lover, a reality tv addict, and a passionate business coach. I’m here to empower you to create an extraordinary business and an amazing life; because I believe you don’t have to choose between the two.

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