The Secret to Smashing Your Income Plateau with Denise Duffield-Thomas

* Transcript created by AI – may contain errors or omissions from original podcast audio

Are you finding that your business is stuck in an income plateau? Well, if so, stick around because this episode of the podcast, I have a special guest on Denise Duffield-Thomas, who talks about how your money archetype is potentially keeping you stuck at your current income level. In this episode, we talk about the different money archetypes and also dive into how you can use this knowledge to break through to your next level of income.

I really enjoyed this conversation and I’m sure you will too. So make sure you stick around and smash your current income plateau.

Welcome back to the podcast. Denise, for anyone who isn’t familiar with you and your work, could you please introduce yourself to the listeners? Yes. Hi, and thanks for having me back. I kind of forced you into [00:01:00] this today because I had a gap in my, I do all my podcasts in one day and I had like a, a seven and an eight, and then I had a gap, and then you were just like, “Yeah, let’s do it.” So thank you. Oh, it’s a pleasure and it’s a perfect alignment. You love talking about money. I love talking about money. Why not? Exactly. For those of you who don’t know me, so I am a money mindset mentor, so I just help entrepreneurs deal with the gremlins that come up around their money, around charging, around increasing their prices, but also I write books about making business easier as well. So I have my Money Bootcamp that helps people with money. And then my latest book, Chill and Prosper is all about making business as easy as possible for your personality so we can create first class lives. I love that. Money bootcamp was the first business course I invested in.

One of my friends said to me, “Hey. Growing your business, you need to go and learn about money mindset.” So it was the first course that I invested in it, honestly, it [00:02:00] has been such a game changer for the whole trajectory of my business and I guess my life. So it’s really beautiful to have you here. And at the time of recording, we actually were away on retreat last week.

We got a group of our seven figure business owner friends and had an awesome, awesome week away. And we spoke a lot about money, about business growth and yeah, can’t wait to dive into it today. It was a very serious and professional meeting. So serious, so serious, so professional. I’m gonna pop the the link to that reel that I shared the other day, which is just us dancing.

And honestly, there was more frivolity that wasn’t captured on film, thankfully. A lot of silliness. Yes, exactly. You know at the end of that mastermind. The last question that we mastermind it on was what are the things that have helped you the most in business or the game changer things?

And the thing that I said was surrounding yourself with people who are in the game, who are going where you wanna go. Because I feel like it is a bit of monkey see, [00:03:00] monkey do and normalizing success and some of the people that we were together with, you know, some of us, we’ve known each other for a long time, but also we’ve learned from each other and seen.

She did that. So maybe I can do that as well before we even were friends. Yeah, exactly. Because you become the people that you’re around and you see things modeled to you. And I know that I’m really intentional around this. One of our friends who was there last week as well, Kerry, as a parent, she’s such a calm, she said, you know, our household’s really harmonious.

And I remember the first time she said that, I got really triggered. ’cause my household at the time was very unregulated. And I love to be around that because it starts to show you, “Well, hang on. If she can do it, maybe I can do it.” And it’s the same for money, which is you know, what we’re gonna be talking about today.

But actually this is a really great segue because one of the things, it was such an eclectic group of people that we had at that retreat, let’s, there was a time we were all dancing around and I looked around the room and thought, we do not look [00:04:00] like we belong in a room together because, you know, everyone, all has their different style, but everyone is driven and passionate about making a positive impact in the world and also creating wealth, creating financial success.

And one of the things that I like thinking about how different everyone was, one of the things was the archetypes. And we referred to it a lot. Over the retreat around people’s money archetypes. So maybe if the listeners aren’t familiar with what that is, could you explain a little bit about the different money archetypes?

Yeah, absolutely. So this was a real game changer for me to learn about my money archetypes. I’ve always loved personality tests. You know, I love all the corporate kind of ones, but I also love astrology, right? I just love to know like, here’s who you are and here’s some of the traits and here’s some things to look out for.

So when I was starting my business I found a lady called Kendall Summerhawk, who was my money mentor. And she’s created this amazing program and I certified in it quite a few years ago [00:05:00] because it was such a game changer for me and I wanted to add my spin on it as well. And so there are eight archetypes and each has a very distinct personality when it comes to money, strengths, and challenges.

And the reason why I think it’s so important to know what your flavor is, ’cause it’s usually like a combination of your top three archetypes, is that. I know when I started in business, I dunno if you’re the same, I kind of just took advice from anyone. Yeah. Yeah. Not realizing that they’ve made those decisions because of their innate personality.

And when you try and copy someone else, or when you try and take advice or even business courses or anything, you have to filter it through your own lens and your own strengths and challenges. So I’ll go through them and I’d love everyone to think about, who do I know who has that? Because you can start to see how some of the archetypes clash and interact.

So I’ll go alphabetically. The first one is the accumulator. And [00:06:00] the accumulator can, at its extreme, be very frugal around money. But also they can be very just responsible and like, on it with things. So this can be anything from being a whiz at spreadsheets to like always finding the best deals and bargains for things.

Now you have a bit of accumulator in you, don’t you? It’s actually not one of my top three. No, it’s not. And I think that that is because when we get to it, because of that celebrity, I’m really high on celebrity. So yes. We’ll talk a little bit about that when it gets to it. Now, I actually see a lot of entrepreneurs who are married to accumulators.

 And so they can sometimes feel like. The accumulator is a bit of the Debbie Downer, who’s like, no, that’s not a safe thing to do. Yeah. And every archetype can be an entrepreneur. You just have to find a way that works for you. And what I find is accumulators, sometimes in the entrepreneurial world, they get very confused by the, like, build the plane as you fly it kind of mentality and they need a little bit more [00:07:00] structure and certainty when they build their business. Okay, so that’s the accumulator. The second one is the Alchemist. And this is the classic like entrepreneur with a million ideas, the problem solver, the inventor someone who is like has a million domain names.

That’s actually usually how I find to be alchemists are as I have domain names to your own. Because they’ve tried a million different businesses. And the key for the alchemists, it takes ’em so long to understand this, is that your business is in ideation. It’s not finding the one thing that you’re supposed to do, you’re actually supposed to work on a lot of different projects.

And so this is where a lot of alchemists do really well by being a business consultant for people being able to ideate in other people’s businesses, but without having to do them all themselves ’cause they get bored with it. I find a lot of alchemists and accumulators are married and it’s just like, it’s really hard to sometimes find them.

The next one [00:08:00] is the celebrity, which you mentioned. So the celebrity archetype loves the finer things in life. So for some people that’s bling or designer. For some people though, it’s like the latest. So a lot of celebrities can be real like taste makers, they can spot trends before they come. So sometimes you can immediately see who is a celebrity in a room.

Sometimes it’s a little bit more hidden. And I think with your personality too, you can so clearly see that you’re a celebrity because you just have that like. As I said last week, that lust for life. Yes. And it’s very sexy. And that’s the thing with a lot of celebrities, people are drawn to them because they have charisma and enthusiasm and just like a real lust for life.

Of course, the downside of that sometimes for celebrities is like overspending, instant gratification, doing things to impress other people. So everyone’s got a spectrum on it and you just gotta make sure that those things don’t derail your life. The next one is the connector, and I find that [00:09:00] sometimes when people do the quiz, which by the way, I’ll just give you the link now, denisedt.com/quiz, free quiz.

You can find out who you are. Sometimes the connectors come back and say, I’m confused. I don’t know which one I am. And it’s because they’ve gotten almost identical scores across the board, which is such a classic connector thing because sometimes they’re chameleons. They can flex and adapt. And you see this in a lot of like corporate personality types.

They are the flex personality because they know how to adapt. But also it’s not an introvert, extrovert thing. Some connectors are party planners. They own a networking company. They’re a matchmaker, but others are more connectors of ideas. So they might be really good storytellers. They might be able to see the interconnections between things and solve problems for other people.

But connectors are often very confused. And when I run my money archetypes course, still by [00:10:00] the end, they’re just like, I’m confused. I’m like, you’re not confused. You just literally just trying to be everything to everyone. And the thing that really challenges connectors often is being paid for what they do because they love

referring people to things. But as soon as there is an affiliate link, they stop doing it because they worry that people are gonna think they’re just after the money. They’re very much about people over profits, and that’s great. But then what I find is they become friends with all their clients and then they feel like they have to give mates rates to all their clients.

And so they never make any money. And that’s on the extreme side. You can obviously learn to do it. So that’s the connector. Next we have the Maverick. So I find there’s a lot of Mavericks in the entrepreneurial world too. So these are the people who are here to disrupt to sometimes break industries to be ignited.

So they’re often really ahead of the trends. They can be very rebellious as well and very instant gratification. So you might see Mavericks sell something and then they decide they’re bored [00:11:00] of it and then they burn it all down and then they do something else. And so it’s a real it’s a very powerful energy to have ’cause people are very drawn to it.

But you have to be very careful in how you design your business so you don’t feel like you’ve got handcuffs all the time, so you don’t then burn it down. But Mavericks are here to change things and to, you know, be leaders and make things happen. It’s a very cool energy. Then you have the nurturers.

So I find that nurturers are very much concentrated in the entrepreneur entrepreneurial world, in like helping and, you know, sometimes consulting, sometimes healing, health related fields, teaching kind of thing. Because they’re, they have such big hearts and they wanna make the world a better place. And sometimes their downfall is they wanna give so much and they feel guilty about receiving anything in return. So then I find that they get stuck in their jobs and they’re doing their side hustle on the side, but they never make enough [00:12:00] money to get there. So if that’s you, you have to heal that part of yourself that says it’s bad to charge.

So then you can love on people even more and create beautiful things in the world. So that’s the nurturers. Then we’ve got the romantics. So Romantics can share a little bit with the celebrities where they love the finer things in life. It’s a little bit different ’cause it’s not always outward.

Sometimes it’s about they just can’t be bothered. They want ease, they want pleasure, so they can be really, really good at finding shortcuts and hacks. Because they just can’t be fired, basically. Yeah. And they love things to be beautiful. You see a lot of designers with that romantic sensibility and like a classic thing is they create a product and then they make really beautiful packaging and materials and then they’re not making any profit because it’s just like, it has to be the best and yeah, it’s like, and the best packaging and everything else to be beautiful.

But Romantics can be so good in business when they get around to it because [00:13:00] they just have that knack of making things really simple, beautiful, easy. And then finally you’ve got the rulers. Again, rulers are very common in the entrepreneurial world because of that drive to create empires, to find solutions to things.

They can sometimes be workaholics, but they really can monetize and market anything. So you’ll sometimes see rulers have multiple businesses at any one time, or they go into something just literally because no one’s done. They’re like, oh God, I guess I have to do this. And then they create this big empire around it.

Yeah. So they’re the, the eight archetypes. But as people are listening, they might go, oh, and a little bit of this, and a little bit of that. That’s where when you do the quiz, you get a list of your archetypes and you’re always a combination. And sometimes they fight against each other and sometimes they work harmoniously.

So my husband and I we’re both rulers, but he’s a, he’s a much more ruley ruler [00:14:00] than I am. Because my Maverick and my romantic, kind of come into play a little bit more, whereas he’s got a Maverick, but he’s got a little tiny celebrity in there as well. And so sometimes, you know, those, those traits can be amplified depending on what combination you have.

You might have a ruler who wants to rule the world, but you also might have a nurturer that’s like, yeah, but we feel really bad for charging. And so sometimes you’ve gotta see who wins out in your personality. And does it change over time, because it’s probably been like six, seven years maybe since I did mine.

Can you change over time or is it kind of pretty much the same? I don’t think we’re ever fixed if we are growing and changing. Mm-hmm. I think some people get fixed in their negative side, you know? You see those people, they’re just making the same sabotages again and again and again because each one is a spectrum anyway.

I think what is good is if you identify like the harmful sides of your [00:15:00] archetype and move into a more harmonious place with that. So I don’t think we necessarily change. However, I will say that I think there’s different seasons where different archetypes might play a bigger role. So when I was like in my full empire building, you know, hungry to succeed, my ruler was just like ruling the show.

Now I’m in a season of taking a bit more of a backseat, like leaning into my hobbies and my pleasures. So my romantics kind of like, okay, my turn to shine. Right? Yeah. I think where it goes with disaster is with if all your archetypes are in their harmful side of the spectrum. Mm-hmm. That can be really hard.

Absolutely. And you teach a lot about this, so when people go and do the quiz, they’ll learn how to actually learn the, the, the pros and the cons of their archetypes and how they can leverage that in their business. Well, I think sometimes when people do the quiz too, they sometimes you like, I don’t wanna be that.

You [00:16:00] know, sometimes they’re like, oh, wish I was that archetype instead. Well, every archetype does have a path to wealth, you just kind of have to do it in a slightly different way. So let me give you an example around business models, for example, right? And there’s no like 100% right or wrong, but there are definitely business models that work for different archetypes a little bit better.

So, a Maverick and an Alchemist, for example, the thing that they share in common is instant gratification. Lots of ideas, wanting a lot of freedom. So if you are that archetype, creating a business model that traps you would feel bad, right? Yeah. And so, but you’re really good at selling, ’cause when you’re enthusiastic about it, yeah.

Everyone wants what you have, right? So I’ve seen both of those archetypes sell like an 18 month mastermind, but they get to like month two or three and [00:17:00] they go, I, I don’t wanna do this anymore. Yeah. It doesn’t mean you can’t do it, it just means you would have to set it up in a way where maybe the topic’s different every month.

It gives you that variety. It gives you, instead of feeling like, it’s a golden handcuff thing. So what really works then, if you love that instant gratification, do VIP days, do retreats, where it comes in, it’s really intense. And then you, you don’t have to have that ongoing stuff. One thing I always say to alchemists to change immediately in their work, it’s such a game changer, is that if, especially if you’re a coach or a one-to-one person, alchemists will be like, oh, I’ll send you the notes after the call, but they won’t.

And they never do because it’s for them, the magic is gore. So I always just say to them, great, like, you get your clients to record, you get your clients to take notes, or you get your client. Or, one thing I’ve seen really well is I had a shared Google Doc with the person I hired to help me come up with a, I hired a [00:18:00] person just to ideate for me.

I needed to come up with three subtitles for my book. So I hired an Alchemist, we had a shared Google doc. We typed in there and it was done. So it’s like there’s no right or wrong, but stop promising things that actually go against your nature. On the flip side of that, accumulators, they struggle sometimes with the feast or famine nature of entrepreneurship.

So it doesn’t always work for them to go, oh, I’ll do a big launch once a year. Because for the rest of that time, it doesn’t matter how much money they have in the bank, they’re convinced they’re gonna be homeless on the street. So for them, they might need a bit more like, retainer clients might make them feel better having people on payment plans or really like trying to smooth out some of those rides that for a Maverick, that’s totally fine.

They, they live with that, right? Yeah. And that’s just like knowing yourself, knowing what works for you, and [00:19:00] then finding the clients who, like is a perfect match to that. Yeah, it’s, so, I, I loved learning about this because I think, so when I first got mine, I am ruler, celebrity, connector, and I instantly got, I’m like, firstly, I don’t wear designer label clothes.

I had all those negative connotations around celebrity, and I thought, I don’t wanna be a celebrity. But what I’ve realized is that I actually love and thrive, like being on the stage hosting live events. I, I, I love that stuff. I love like social media and I know that a lot of people, business owners don’t, but I love being silly on my reels, and so I’ve just started to embrace it and say, well.

You know what, maybe you do like being the center of attention a bit and let’s roll with it. And I’ve also learned, for example, when I’m doing my tours that I see other, I need to have an assistant. I wanna have someone who’s there. I’m like, Hey, let me get you a glass of water. [00:20:00] And even though I’m not into designer label clothes or anything like that, I really love that.

I like to be supported. I like that kind of energy around it. So I’ve just embraced that. And yeah, I think that it’s really great for anyone to go and do the quiz and learn a little bit more. And to your point, like, don’t judge yourself. Just say, okay, well if this is what my inclination is, how can I work to my strengths?

Well, the good thing is though, there’s so many different ways to be each type. So what I did when I was creating the course is I looked at different tropes. And so say for example, the celebrity, right? There could be 30 different tropes within that celebrity. So there can be the diva, there can be the queen, there can be the evil queen, right?

There can be the aging diva, there can be the new ingenue, there can be like you think of all the different types of celebrity that you can be. And it’s really great when you pick one [00:21:00] that kind of feels really good to you. So what I love about celebrities, what you’re here to do actually, is to increase everyone’s standards and to be the example.

So for some celebrities, it’s all about them. It’s like, look at me, look at me. But when you are in your healthy expression of it, what you are doing is giving people permission to show up, to be visible, to be silly, to be fabulous, to have a lust for life. That’s such a celebrity thing too. And to show that by example.

So that’s like the benevolent queen archetype of the celebrity, right? Or, or the, you know, like we are all in this together. This is so fun. And that’s your connector side as well, right? Your connector side is let’s do this together. And that’s when we are not like a one dimensional thing, but I find that every archetype often has a little bit of a wound around that.

So for some celebrities, [00:22:00] they’ve learnt to dial down their fabulousness, their charisma, their love of whatever it is, because something happened where it’s like, it’s not safe for me to do this. And so I’ve heard it a million times, things like, oh, I got the lead in the school play and then nobody liked many anymore.

Or, you know, the popular kid asked me out and nobody liked me anymore. I got something and then it was a negative. And so we almost have to relearn then to just be like, oh, now I can create my own communities where it is safe for us to do this and to explore this together. And I can be the one to spark that off for other people, just by my example.

And that’s why I love, so I didn’t get the celebrity stuff either. At the start, I’d be like, ’cause I saw it as one dimensional. Mm-hmm. And then I start to realize, oh, this is a real gift that celebrities have, like be the example and raise everyone’s standards. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it’s cool. Let’s talk about how this all [00:23:00] ties into business, and particularly around like income plateaus.

You know, you go and find out this information, you go, okay, well I’ve got this trade and this trade. I’m an accumulator. I know that I’m really scared to invest in my business. You know, once you’ve got that information, if you were then going, okay, I now have that knowledge, I’m looking at where I’m at in my business, I’m stuck at, I can’t break through the six figure mark.

I can’t break through the multi six, I can’t break through the seven. How can we actually use this to actually make more money? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. But you’re absolutely right. There’s, there are plateaus that happen in every person’s business, and there’s always something that is like the key to unlock that.

Mm-hmm. Okay. And this is where I think it’s so powerful knowing your archetypes because the solution isn’t the same for every person. Okay, so let’s just pick, I need like a little hat. I need to pick a, an archetype at random because this is, I live for this stuff, right? So say a connector [00:24:00] Yeah. Is stuck and they’re stuck at that six figure mark.

So the first thing that comes to mind is that they might think, but if I make more money, I’ll be lonely. Oh, okay. Yep. Right? Mm-hmm. I won’t have any friends. People won’t like me anymore. Mm-hmm. Yeah, my friendship group will change, you know, and I’ll leave people behind. So already that’s something that you just go, oh my God, that is, that would be feel absolutely true.

And so then people start to hold themselves back, well, I can’t make more money because bad things will happen. And so sometimes the way that you overcome those things is the awareness, right? If just to go, okay, it’s not true that I’m gonna lose all my friends. It’s not true that I’m gonna be a bad person if I make more money.

I’m gonna also create connections with people who are at that next level. So I can normalize that for myself, that they’re just normal people and they’re nice people and they’re ethical and they’re, you know, they’re not lonely weirdos. And then you have that [00:25:00] proof, right? Yeah. So that’s. That’s where a connector might be stuck.

By the way, the number actually doesn’t make a difference because you’ll, you’ll come up with a different. Sorry. It’ll be the same things at different levels. So then once the connector then gets to like the seven figure mark, they’re then going through the same thing again, which is like, oh my gosh, there’s, and there is kind of some.

Truth to that. I mean, at the end of the day, like, you know, there’s, there’s some stat, it’s like only 10% of female business owners ever make a hundred thousand dollars a year. I don’t know the percentage, but let’s say it’s 1% at the seven figure mark. Like these are real things that there’s gonna be less and less people at the same income level.

So that is true. But I think what’s really cool though, when we were talking about our mastermind last week, we actually all had different incomes. But we all learned something from each other. Yeah. That we. Absolutely. That we, that we had a gap in. Yeah. And that’s where I think you get to that point too.

You go, [00:26:00] oh, money’s just money. Yeah. Like, money’s whatever. But like, there’s. Like, I’ll still be the same person. I’ll still have challenges and everyone has challenges too, which is something that connectors are really good at, is understanding, recognizing that humanity in others. But they still might get stuck ’cause they think, but I’m going to turn into someone that I don’t wanna do.

Also, a, a nurturer might face a similar challenge where they go, I’ve actually reached a plateau because I’m not increasing my prices. Because I feel bad about charging people and chasing up people who owe me money. Yeah. So then it might be a logistical thing for them to say, actually, I need a gatekeeper.

I need to hire somebody to be my bad cop and chase up, chase up invoices or to, this is what happened with a friend of mine who had a in-person clinic. She would just go, oh, just give me $50. She had to hire a receptionist who took the money. Yeah. She couldn’t, [00:27:00] she couldn’t do it. Yeah. So it’s like, where am I, where is my natural challenge in my personality?

What can I do to overcome that? And it’s, it is so different for everyone. For, so for some people it might be hiring more people. For some people it’s hiring less people. For some people it’s changing their business model, so it’s. More in alignment. For some people it’s marketing to a different target audience.

So that’s why it’s like, okay, where am I tipped over into the, like, the harmful side of my archetype? And is that gonna be the thing that unlocks that next level for me? So for alchemists. Often they’ll get to a plateau in one business and then they start another business and they start from scratch, right?

And so it’s like, well, where can you get to a point where maybe you just create passive income products? So you do just, when the inspiration takes you, no one can achieve quicker than like an alchemist on fire, right? Mm-hmm. The problem is you get bored of it. [00:28:00] So if you have a business that actually needs your energy all the time, you can have all of these neglected, like business baby like,

But if you are a prolific queen, write it, create a passive income thing, set and forget and then, then it’s not an issue. Yeah, right. It’s not, then it’s not a sabotage. I know someone who can write a whole book in a weekend, and this was free chat GPT by the way, because she just wrote it like she just wrote that Wild Donkey, as Leonie Dawson says, instead of making it like, oh, I’m such a flake because I’m not pursuing that any anymore.

So you know, you might create white label products. Other people then just go and take, you might be someone who just, you know, ideate for someone else and then you don’t have to, then you don’t have to feel guilty about all the neglected businesses ’cause they’re not yours to take home. And I think the example for that is, I say to people, if you’re an Alchemist, you’re an ideas doula.

You don’t, then [00:29:00] you don’t take the baby home that you’ve helped deliver and raise it. You are like, I’ve done my bit. Be free. Go on and do your thing. And so that might unlock a plateau because you go, oh, I’m just sabotaging myself. And the thing that alchemists have to unlearn sometimes is that pain of being called a flake, being called a daydreamer.

But that’s what you’re here to do. Yeah. So embrace that. That could even be like, oh, I, I run a membership, but every month is a completely different thing. You know, if that works for you. Or it could be just like, just do random stuff and I, I work with anyone in anything. You bring me a problem, I’ll help you solve it.

Bam. Go away. And that’s where you see people who are like inventors. Who are like Seth Godin, right? He just writes books on all different things. He can talk about whatever he wants. No one is like, oh, he hasn’t picked a lane because he’s a, his lane is ideas, right? And [00:30:00] ideation. Even his head looks like a light bulb.

It does, and that’s how, that’s how his like logo is. I think his logo is a light bulb. It’s pure alchemy energy and like you can get stuck there. Or you can find a way to make that your strength. Mm-hmm. I love that. And this segue goes back to what you said as well about why I think it’s dangerous to like idolize your like mentor or the strategy.

You know, like when reels comes in, it’s like the only way to make money is reels and it feels like. That has to be the be all and end all. And the only way that you can do it, and I know that people find it really frustrating with the way that I mentor because they’re like, what percentage do I need to put into marketing?

And I’m like, but that’s different for every industry and for every business. And I, I actually don’t love that model where it’s like, you’ve gotta do it this way and it has to be 30%. Because for some people like the accumulator, that would drive them [00:31:00] nuts. Having to put that much into mark, they wouldn’t feel safe.

And absolutely. I think that knowing how you are, how you think, how you, you know what, what your type is, it really can help you to grow. How can I build my business in a way that’s aligned to me? Yes, absolutely. Well, let me give you a couple more examples for some of the other archetypes then, because a ruler where they get stuck is that they wear all the hats.

Mm. Because they can be very controlling. I can say this ’cause I’m a, I’m a ruler. It’s that bossy bitch kind of mentality, but it’s also that impatience of I can do everything better than other people. The thing though that gets them stuck is you can’t do it all yourself. So there was a point, I remember someone said to me, oh, you can’t get to six figures doing it all yourself.

And I went, watch me. I’m gonna do it all myself. And I did. And actually, I always say my, my thing is like, I got to seven figures with me and a part-time assistant, and I’m like, there’s a [00:32:00] badge of honor in that. Right? But I, I could have probably done it quicker and less stressful with people helping me.

And so then my plateaus have always been like, where am I being too controlling, trying to do everything myself. And an Alchemist has a similar, sorry. An accumulator has a similar problem around hiring, which can plateau them, but not because of the similar reason of like, I can do it better, but it’s also, I don’t wanna spend the money.

Yeah, I can do it cheaper. I don’t wanna increase my monthly expenditure. Is it worth it? So it’s like they can sometimes really procrastinate on growing because they’re, they’re too scared to do it. Whereas for a ruler, it’s, it’s usually a, a bossy control thing for both of them. Though, it’s a quality thing.

I can do it better. For the ruler, sometimes it’s like, I can do it faster ’cause I’ll just do it at 3:00 AM. You know? Yeah. The thing that really sticks with accumulators, and this is where they get the plateau, is that sometimes they’re [00:33:00] very, very late to doing things like passive income. Yeah. Because they don’t believe in it, because they’re like, why would someone buy a course to do it?

When you can just figure it out yourself. Mm. Because that’s their nature. They can figure things out, they can research. They’ve got the patience to do it. Whereas for me, I actually, I love buying things that just say, here’s the shortcuts. Yeah. So my time is worth more than my money in that situation. And also I just wanna leapfrog it.

Sometimes accumulators don’t get it. ’cause they wouldn’t pay for that themselves. They would just figure it out. And so then they’re like, why would someone buy that? So I see accumulators totally get stuck there. Where like as I said, chemist, where celebrities often get stuck to is there’s sometimes that they like the shiny stuff on the outside, but they don’t always have the patience to build it on the inside.

So they might not be building the structures to support it. The infrastructure. Sometimes when it comes to hiring, they can hire like little mini mes. [00:34:00] That are really fun, but actually don’t, oh my gosh, this feels like me to a t. Okay. Rulers do that too. They hire mini mes ’cause they’re really fun to talk to.

And then, but they’re like hiring people who are just like, oh, I’ll go start a business. Thanks, bye. And they run away. Whereas I think the celebrities, they often hire people who are like sexy. They, it’s like, oh, I don’t wanna hire the boring person. Like, that’s who they need, right? They need the person who has the details and does the boring stuff.

They need that entourage really. And then I see celebrities too. They overspend on things like, oh, I’ll join a sexy mastermind, but not, it’s like on the extreme side, it’s that fur coat, no knickers thing. Or like the champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget. And so sometimes the details get a little bit mixed.

Sorry, missed. But where a celebrity can really shine is if they find a right hand person who is just happy just to make everything happen and really build those [00:35:00] structures, then they can, they can fly, right? Because then they can just be the talent. That can be really good. As I say, connectors get stuck ’cause of charging and they just go, oh, but everyone’s my friend now I’m gonna be a bitch.

Mavericks absolutely, self-sabotage and self implode. I know we’ve probably seen this in our friendship group too. People get really big then they get, they get bored or they burn it down or go start something new. Yeah. Or in the extreme side, they like literally burn down friendships. They get itchy.

It’s like that destructive like pirate kind of mentality in the positive side. It’s like, well, again, like the Alchemist create lots of things, but make sure that like, it’s for you, not against you. Like Richard Branson. Yeah. You know, like he’ll come up with a great idea, he’ll put a great team in place. So then when he is bored of it, who cares?

Mm. There’s someone there to actually make it happen and he gets to do the fun Mavericky stuff. And you know, that can just be such a self-sabotage for Mavericks, but it [00:36:00] doesn’t have to be. And I think it’s really fun. Like no one has more fun than a rich Maverick, right? You don’t have to go in that feast or famine.

You can have like, a stability part and then play up here. Where it’s like, who cares if you fuck it up? Like it’s not going to make break everything. Romantics get stuck because they can’t be bothered or they feel like, oh, it’s gonna be too much work. Or you know, I, I don’t wanna do that thing. They can also embrace things like passive income.

I’ve got a friend who is a romantic accumulator. She, most of her business has been on passive for years. And then she just does fun stuff. She’ll do film and TV work because she doesn’t have to do it all the time. You know, she goes to the movies, she literally is like, I just wanna create my business so I can watch TV all day if I want to.

You know, and then she’s, because she’s got that accumulator side, she hasn’t upgraded her lifestyle a lot. She’s paid off her mortgage with that. And so then it’s just, it’s created such a beautiful thing for her. And as I, [00:37:00] yeah. Rulers. Rule is screw it up. Nurturers too. It’s the same thing of like, I can’t charge.

A lot of nurturers, the biggest plateau for them is actually charging in the first place. Mm. That’s the biggest thing. And then for them, it’s gonna be a series of boundaries around time and not overdelivering and not burning themselves out. Oh, I see that. So a lot of people in the spiritual place that I’ve worked with are like that, and they’re like, no, I’m here to make a difference and create change.

And I’m like, you can do that. And still freaking charge for it. Yes. But they, they try and get advice from rulers like us, right? And they feel like, but I don’t wanna be like a bitch like them. You know? And we’re like, it’s not being a bitch, but they can do it in their beautiful, gentle way. Absolutely. And I think to when nurturers understand, wow, if I charge well for what I do, I’ll have some time to write a book, to create a podcast, to create free resources for people, then you don’t feel like you’re being, you know, like a horrible money grubbing person. So can you see already, like you go, [00:38:00] every archetype has their own reasons for sabotage, but also for growth. Mm. And you just have to tap into that. Like, so I, I, did you say you do have a bit of Maverick? In you as well? No, I’ve got a bit of accumulator as well. Oh, okay.

Yeah. I mean the reality is you listen to all of them and you go, I’ve got parts of that, and I’ve got parts of that. Yes. And yeah, we do though. And what is really fun is you can activate different parts of yourself. Mm-hmm. So I am not really a connector. I don’t really have a lot of celebrity, but when I’m around some of my celebrity friends, I can.

I can do it for a little while. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So like, you know, I was like, I had that sparkly sequin dress last week. I would never wear that at home, but because I’m with some other celebrities, I can experience that. Yeah. It’s not sustainable for me for a long time. Same with, I’m not an accumulator, but I can hire accumulators to help like bring that out of me.

So at least my business has some accumulator energy and I’m not sabotaging it, [00:39:00] you know? Yeah, absolutely. And so we can, we can flex and change and bring forth different things. You can do it with music, you can do it with place. So when I want a bit of celebrity energy, I’ll go to Melbourne or Sydney.

Mm-hmm. You know, if I want some like creative energy, I’ll go to an art class, or I’ll even just read Books by Creatives is enough to spark some creativity for me. So we really can like activate those different parts. We just wanna make sure that we’re not just in the negative for all of those things.

‘Cause that’s when really, like we sabotage, we get stuck and we feel, yeah, we feel alone. We blame ourselves. And it’s like, no, you just have to just balance, balance the energy out a little bit. And not knowing why you’re like, why am I doing this thing? And it’s like, oh, that’s why it makes sense now.

Absolutely. Exactly. And you know, I, I love the affirmation, it’s safe for me to blah, blah, blah, but every archetype needs a [00:40:00] different way to feel safe. Mm-hmm. You know, and it’s one of the exercises I do in there. So the whole thing is called Sacred Money Archetypes, SMA. And so I’ve found all these little puns on it, and I’ve created like a Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

Mm-hmm. Because even that security and safety, if you ask all the different archetypes. It’s very different. Yeah. And it requires different things, different level of connection, different level of self-actualization. And so once you realize that and go, oh, it’s safe for me to want what I want, it’s safe for me to feel safe by doing the thing that works for my archetype, and that’s real freedom then.

Mm-hmm. And then you can, you can tweak everything in your business. Mm-hmm. And that’s super fun to do that. Oh, I love that. I love that. Well, I’m sure the listeners are gonna be like, I need to get my hands on this quiz. So can you share the url l once again? And of course I’ll pop it in the show notes as well.

Yes, thanks. Thanks for letting me share this too, by the way. You know how much I just [00:41:00] get so excited talking about it. So if you go to denisedt.com/quiz. So there’s a questionnaire to go through and sometimes people are like, there’s two questions. I got bored. I’m like, oh yeah, well you’re an Alchemist or Maverick so you don’t even need to do it.

That’s fine. And then there’s a little workshop where it, it shows, you know, what are your strengths of your archetype, what are all the different things? And what was really fun about creating this is, that I created a different set and costumes for every single archetype. And they’re very different. And I really felt the, like, I, I was like, oh, I really feel like a nurturer in this space.

Like, so they’re all based on somebody either that I know or a part of my personality. So if when you see it and you go, well, I’m not a Maverick like that. It’s like it doesn’t matter. You bring out your Maverick in the way that it works for you. So I had so much fun creating that course. It was a very ruler way to do it because instead of one launch, I had to do eight launches in one.

Instead of creating one course, I had to create eight courses at the same time, [00:42:00] but it’s yeah, I hope people enjoy and like have a look at the little sets and things like that and you’ll see like little Easter eggs and like little bits like, I, God, I wish we could talk forever. So for example, in the accumulator set.

There’s a very strict color palette. It’s like three different shades of blue, and so the books in the background are like DIY books that I found in a thrift store, and they’re like the three shades of blue. There’s like pencils in three shades of blue. Everything is very symmetrical and straight. And then if you go and watch The Alchemist one, my inspiration for that was like, like an apothecary witches kind of stuff.

So there’s like purples and blues and crystals and juicy like books that look like spell books and all these fun things. So it was either stuff that I had in my house or I went thrifting with each personality in mind. The celebrity set was the hardest one for me to create ’cause it’s not my thing. So I had like shoes and bags

in the [00:43:00] shelves. ’cause I realized celebrities are really good at showing their pleasure and like perfume bottles and like my hair and my makeup was way outta my comfort zone. And I had to go and find high heels and shiny things. But it was so fun to really go into the shoes of each of those archetypes and really feel the feelings because it is like you have to just embrace who you are and give yourself permission to do that.

And being able to step into that was very fun. Oh, I have love, love, love this conversation. I feel like I’m gonna have to get you back on the podcast a fourth time. I know. That’s all right. I love it. It’s like we’d have this conversation anyway. Have you ever, you’re ever stuck again. You’re always welcome to come back, but thank you so much for sharing.

I’ll pop the links to Denise’s socials, her website, and of course, to the Sacred Money Archetype Quiz in the show notes for today’s episode. Thank you again for joining us, and you are. Thank you. Bye. See you soon. Bye.

* Transcript created by AI – may contain errors or omissions from original podcast audio