Is wealth a bad thing as a spiritual entrepreneur with The Royal Sharman

Transcript

* Transcript created by AI – may contain errors or omissions from original podcast audio

CLARE: Is it bad to make good money as a spiritual entrepreneur and a healer? How exactly does spirituality help you make more money in your business? And what exactly is a shaman and how can a shaman support you on your business journey? All these questions are answered in today’s episode of the podcast, where I interview Makhosi aKA the Royal Shaman to understand what the connection between spirituality and financial success looks like. This conversation is a little bit different to the usual ones that I have on the podcast. We’re going deep into the spiritual realm, but I really loved this conversation and I hope you will too.

 Big warm welcome to the podcast, Makhosi. I heard you on the Manifestation Babe podcast and I was really excited to bring you on the podcast to ask you a ton of questions about about your journey to becoming a shaman and also about how spirituality relates to money and wealth creation.

So thank you so much for coming along.

MAKHOSI: Thank you for having me. You know, I love this topic, especially because I get to bring a different. Perspective than maybe some people are used to. And also I love money. I love that.

CLARE: Well, we’re off to a good start. Well, before we dive in, maybe if you could do a quick introduction to who you are, would be a great place to start.

MAKHOSI: I’m Makosi, also known as the Royal Shaman in public spaces. I really work with a lot of incredible conscious leaders and support them in fulfilling their legacy. I work with a lot of people who, like me in my past, have, you know, maybe gotten certain credentials or done all of the things that they thought meant that they would become successful and maybe even got that success and then found that there’s so much more.

So my perspective is that we can have both fulfillment and freedom, right? And that also includes financial freedom as an aspect of that.

CLARE: Amazing. You are a shaman. Maybe for those listeners that don’t know what that is, can you explain like what exactly is a shaman?

MAKHOSI: There’s a lot of misunderstanding even amongst people who have heard of the word and know what the word is.

 First and foremost, I have to be very clear that the word shaman itself is a Siberian word, which speaks specifically about a kind of traditional healer that exists in Siberia and lots and lots of Indigenous and ancient cultures have their own versions of this word shaman. And so I was not initiated in Siberia. I actually initiated in South Africa. So I’m considered what they call a single. And I can talk more about that later, but it’s not super important. The most important thing to understand is that our role is to support and facilitate healing for others, but also for on an individual level, as well as a community level. And we do so through bridging the energetic and physical planes. And specifically, what makes a shaman a shaman is our ability to use non ordinary or altered states of consciousness, our ability to utilize trance, essentially, in order to influence this reality. So it’s kind of, it’s said that we, we go and we journey in the non physical plane, which ultimately creates a ripple effect on this physical plane.

CLARE: So let’s go a little bit deeper into this. Firstly, when you say the word healing, I know that traditionally people think about, Oh, I’ve cut my arm and I’m healing. Like, do you do like, is it, is it healing physical ailments or is it focused primarily around healing? You know, spiritual and in and in our wounds.

MAKHOSI: Yeah, there’s a wide variety and we have different what’s called a calling. So each of us has like, like a doctor would have their specialty. We each have a Specialty or a group of specialties that we work on. But our understanding is that everything starts in the spiritual realm. So even if you went and you got a cut on your finger and you went to a doctor to, let’s say, stitch it up, a shaman would be concerned with, okay, what was happening spiritually that ultimately created it that accident on this plane. Now, sometimes that’s just a result of we live with other people. We live with animals and plants and there’s where we are co creating this reality together. And so sometimes we bump into each other, but also sometimes the things that we experience in our reality as repeated patterns are speaking to a spiritual or an energetic. Misalignment and those physical, those physical experiences give us insight into, okay, where is that misalignment?

CLARE: Oh, my gosh, something’s just come up for me, which so about a year ago, I was in a major car accident. I was rear ended by a semi trailer on the freeway. I went through a really horrific whiplash injury and at the time, I’m like, why the hell is this happening to me? This is so unfair. You know, all of the, and then I really now in retrospect, and not that it’s over, you know, I do have chronic pain as a result, but I now go, Oh my gosh, that came into my life to teach me Such an amazing lesson. I’ve taken so much out of that experience. Retrospectively it has completely changed my perspective on life. And it’s funny how sometimes these things happen also for, you know, a bigger reason that maybe we can’t understand in this physical world, but sometimes we can take the lessons in hindsight.

MAKHOSI: Yeah, you know, what’s incredible about that, and I’m so sorry to hear that that you know that you had such a traumatic experience. And also, sometimes it takes these really challenging sometimes like life or death experiences for us to take a look in the mirror for us to pause for a second and really look at. Wait, is my life a reflection of what actually matters to me of what I do? Really value because most of us are not going through our life consciously. We’re going through our life almost like robots or just hamsters on a wheel doing this, going there, doing, you know, in a very reactive mode instead of taking a moment to breathe and really feel into, is this really a reflection of who I desire to be in this world and, and what matters.

I think we all had, like, as a as a species, we had this kind of moment a few years ago with the pandemonium. That’s what I call it. With the pandemonium, we all had that kind of moment and some people, you know, have taken it to very different levels in their life and created very different paths and some were terrified and what, like, they were just like, I can’t wait for it to go back to quote unquote normal.

CLARE: Yeah, I got goosebumps when you said that about how many of us are just going through life, going through the motions. And, you know, sometimes we need to have these things that happen and then suddenly go, Oh my gosh, And there’s a learning and a lesson and to your point, like there’s, there is this bigger spiritual world out there that so many of us are just going through life, trying to ignore it or push it aside or not really spend too much time in contemplation of it as well.

What’s that saying? Our greatest fear is not that we aren’t powerful enough. It’s that we’re infinite. You know, the one that I’m talking about, we’re infinitely powerful. Yeah. And it’s actually, it’s something that I know, like often when I have these spiritual encounters and moments and it’s so scary and overwhelming because it makes you challenge everything.

In this physical realm that often it’s easier just to push it aside and try and ignore it. Does that make sense?

MAKHOSI: It takes a lot of bravery. I, from my perspective, it does. When I see someone who does make the decision to walk a spiritual path. And by the way, walking a spiritual path does not mean you have to become a shaman. It doesn’t mean you have to, you know, dress, dress Bohemian and move to Bali. No offense to Bali. There are some of us who are called to be very grounded and, and, and in the work in Western societies, right? There are some of us who are not meant to go out in the forest somewhere to meditate for the rest of our lives. And so walking a spiritual path in my perspective looks like walking in alignment and allowing your life, your relationships, your money, your businesses, et cetera, to be a reflection. Of a bigger vision, right? A more connected vision versus just, you know, what is going to pay a bill today?

Like one of the worst, one of the things that gets on my nerves the most is what I call paper clothing. The fact that we have companies that are just like making so much just crap. It’s just crap clothing. You can only wear it once. Right. And that is a very short term, not aligned thought where you’re just automatically going to something that is just disposable versus what am I really building? What am I really creating?

CLARE: I love that you’ve shared that because you hit a nail on the head that happened a couple of years ago. I saw, I can’t remember, you know, I was doing kinesiology or Reiki or something along those lines. And she said to me, you’re a healer. And it freaked me out so much. I came home to my husband, I’m like, and then it’s happened a couple of times. And I’m like, does this mean I’ve got to become a shaman or excuse me. And he’s like, but you are here. Like you are helping people break through money stories and you’re helping people sort their finances out. And it was kind of this like a high moment because I was like, Oh, I got really like, do I have to go down this certain path? And he’s like, but you are a healer. In your own way. And it was sort of like this permission slip and you’ve just validated that in what you said there.

Anyway, we’ve gone off on a really big tangent. Sorry, I tend to do this. But coming back to, so you spoke about healing and specifically using trance.

So when you said using trance as a way of healing, what does that mean for people who, who don’t know what trance means?

MAKHOSI: Trance is… how to explain it. Because I do believe if you’ve ever gone into a meditative state, that is one form of an altered state. of consciousness. It is where, you know, you are out of the regular human experience where your mind is chasing rabbits all the time, right? And now you are in literally a different state. If they, if, if you measure the brainwaves, there is literally a shift or a change in the brain waves.

So trance there are some people who have, let’s say a more spontaneous trance experience, which is similar to meditation, but it’s on a different frequency. It’s a, a deeper losing control, we could say. And that can usually be like maybe a once in a lifetime thing, or maybe it’s all, maybe it’s catalyzed by something like a plant medicine or certain change over a long period of time can induce trance and so on and so forth.

So those of us who are shamans utilize trance and there are varying degrees to which we utilize it. There are some shamans who need drums. Like the sound of drums, the rhythm of the drums in order to essentially dissolve the ego or dissolve the personality so that they can just be quote unquote spirit. There are some who utilize plant medicine in order to go into that state of conscious consciousness. There are others who use dance and so on and so forth.

My own gifting when I utilize it allows me to go in without any tools and I don’t do this often because you do need to be in a, in a safe space. You need to have people around who understand and who can support and whatnot. So it’s not something that I go around doing all the time, but I can also I do utilize it sometimes for my clients, but not at this point, I don’t do it actively with them. There may be a few times here and there where if I feel called to it, I may hold space for something like that. But nowadays I’ve learned, I’ve learned a lot. I’ve learned a lot about, you know, just what people are open and ready and willing to understand.

And trance is one of those things that is a very advanced spiritual notion. And a lot of people have a lot of deconditioning of judgment that needs to happen before they could even understand the value of it. Understand or even experience and receive what they can from interacting with someone in trance and so on and so forth, but it does allow me through having those experiences just to gain insight into, like, what is happening energetically for an individual, but also for all of us and what’s what’s going on.

What’s what to be on the lookout? What is what’s going on? You know, what are some of the challenges that are going to be coming up? What are those patterns that show up? And maybe it looks magical for me to know that, but it’s really just utilizing that insight.

CLARE: Okay, so much to dig into. Yeah. I have experienced the feeling where you sort of go into that altered consciousness through meditation, for example. It’s something that I use because I think that we can get so stuck in our conscious mind that when we’re trying to, you know, break through an old story, and we’re like, no, that’s just the way it is when it comes to money or whatever it might be, that when we sort of. alter it a little bit, then we go, Oh, maybe I can be a little bit more open to another way of seeing this.

Now, the kind of trance you’re talking about is not something I’ve experienced, but I, I, you know, I’ve obviously witnessed it. Like I’ve seen ceremony and things like that. And it looks like it’s on a whole new, different plane. Like it’s what, what is happening when someone is in that sort of state of trance, be it through plant medicine or another form. Like, are you, are you seeing the future? Are you seeing you know, are you, are you having an experience in the spiritual world? Are you, I’m really curious to understand a little bit more about what that looks like.

MAKHOSI: Yeah. I don’t feel like we have, enough language to fully explain what’s, what is happening because even within the word trance, in my experience, I’ve had multiple types of experiences in the term trance.There’s a few different kinds. One when I’m in that trance state, essentially my consciousness moves to viewer mode, we could say. It’s almost like my consciousness is here. Of course, anyone listening to this cannot see where my hand is, but it’s kind of like she’s got a hand behind her head about 30 seconds. Being the, being the observer, being the, being the viewer, then I, my personality is dissolved. I am just we could say pure spirit.

CLARE: So hang on. So you are out of your physical body. Are you, you’re looking at your physical body in a spirit form.

MAKHOSI: It’s almost like if you were to imagine that inside your head is a car. Okay. And when you’re in the front seat of the car, right, let’s say your left eye is the driver’s seat. Your right eye is the passenger. Both of those are in the front. They can, they’re looking out. They see everything from that first view. What I’m talking about is imagining that you’re in the back seat of the car. You can see driver and the passenger and everything that’s going on, but you are not the one driving. You are not the one that’s in control. You are not the one with the map. You are in a completely like surrendered state. Yeah, and now the body is housing something different than your own personality. And that, that can look like that experience also has different, how to put it, different flavors, almost.

So, there is, in my experience, mediumship. Mediumship is a form of trance, right, where you are allowing the consciousness or the awareness of someone who has tranceitioned on into your being, and then that person is allowed to speak through your body. I don’t do that. That’s not my, that’s not my jam at all. I, I only work with the kinds of we’ll say spirits and entities that come with me. I don’t allow other people’s. Then there is my own ancestors consciousness that Lived once, right? That was like a grandfather or a great great aunt or something like that of mine and then they can bring through different information.

What I surmise is happening, but I don’t have scientific proof of it. Is that somehow in trance state, we’ve accessed the subconscious and that almost like epigenetic knowledge, is able to come out and be utilized.

And then the third level that I would say is where Entities or beings that were not human can come through and some might say, you know, this is they could be, let’s say, an alien entity. I don’t personally deal with that, but it could be that for me, it is all divinity. What we call a divinity, a god or goddess or spirits from this world realm, like this earth, right? We went right to the womb. It was obviously meant to go there.

CLARE: So, okay, let’s dive into this a little bit more. So when You are having this experience and you’re like, I presume that was the first time when you went into a trance state and you were experiencing other entities, you were experiencing being out of, was it absolutely terrifying or were you like, yes, this is my, my path or how, how did that unfold for you?

MAKHOSI: Oh, it was not, it was not pretty. I was absolutely terrified. Because the first time that it happened was while I wasn’t in Africa. I was there for the 2nd time that time and it happened spontaneously. So, there are certain, especially early on in my early on in my journey, there were certain environments when certain things would happen, especially certain rhythms of drums, certain ceremonies going on where I did not have any control. And so that first time, which was probably, it was about 2015. I had that experience and my consciousness is back here, essentially watching my body and simultaneously, I was able to see non physical beings in addition to what was there physically, right? So it was like I could see everything that was physical at first and then something started to happen. My consciousness started to move back and then I was able to see all of the physical including myself, but from a different point of view and non physical beings that were around there and I was terrified.

Now, before that, I have to be very clear that wasn’t like my first time seeing spirits or seeing entities and ancestors and spirit animals. I started seeing spirit animals first. As a little girl I mean, 2, 3, very young, I was able to see those. And then once I started getting into my teen years, I had experiences where I started to see people who are no longer living, that evolved into then me being able to see, spirits and so on and so forth. But 2015 was the first time that I had that specific experience where, you know, there was some, some other aspect of myself taking the reins and I was no longer the one in control.

CLARE: When you talk to people in your world about this. Do people think you’re like, you know, I, I imagine in today’s day and age, and you know, I don’t know what it’s like in America, but you know, if kids were like saying, I saw this and you know, I’d be like, Oh my gosh. You know, if, if for example, my son told me that he had a dream about something last night, which came true. And I’m like, wow, he saw that happening. But I imagine a lot of people would be like, You’re seeing like you’re, there’s something not, you know, you’ve got some mental health issues or how is it received in, in your world?

Like, is this something in your lineage that’s quite, no, I imagine in my house or growing up, my parents would be like, you’re crazy. Like we need to take you to the doctor. How was it received in, in your world? Do people around you understand?

MAKHOSI: Yeah, no, you know my household, I grew up in a very Christian household. Luckily I had some, some interesting experiences. Like my grandmother went to church where they quote unquote, catch the Holy ghost PS. That’s not a super different thing. It is one flavor of what I’m talking about here. It doesn’t matter what label you put on it. At the core, it is the same thing, but that nobody wants to talk about. But yeah, as a teen, really when, so when I was 15, my best friend was murdered and she showed up at the end of my bed and after that, I went into a very dark place. Like I was very depressed. I stopped talking for about a year. I was also trying to recover from some sexual trauma as well from my childhood. And you know, I told my mom, Hey, I think I need help. She got me a therapist and I was just seeing a therapist for those sorts of things. And then I let it slip one day that, Oh, and by the way, I’m seeing spirits, I’m seeing nonphysical beings and they were like, oh, yeah, let’s send you to a psychiatrist, here’s some prescription medication and I went down that path. It wasn’t until 2014, somewhere around there, 2014, 2013 that I connected with a mystery school, essentially. And the understanding of these kinds of conditions in people is just viewed completely different. So it was me being in those spaces and having, having access to, hey, there’s a different perspective. There’s something else going on. We are not just physical beings. We are spiritual beings having a physical experience, and this is what that can mean.

I’ve had to do a lot of learning on my own of some of those nuances and I’m still for sure learning a lot, but it was really being in that space. That then I felt safe enough to go on my own journey. I was on that journey, it took me about five years to complete my initiations and become a shaman. And yeah, if it hadn’t been for that space, I’d probably like, just so everyone is very clear, a ton of our healers are in psych wards right now. We have them locked up in psych wards. And I feel a level of responsibility to talk about this and to some people look crazy. I get that. But also I’ve lived a very extraordinary life and I get to experience life in a way that most don’t get to experience. So if I look crazy, then that’s okay.

CLARE: It’s so interesting how you drew that parallel around religion as someone who grew up in a church and, you know, speaking in tongues and things like that. I remember someone once asked me when I was in, in church you know, I, I’m not involved in religion anymore, but someone was like, what, what does it feel? And I’m like, it’s, I kind of, it’s like a knowing. And and it’s funny because that’s viewed like, you know, because churches are so societally acceptable isn’t it funny how some things are viewed like, well, that’s, yeah, that’s, that’s okay. And then other things people, if people don’t understand it, perhaps, and I know for me, you know, I was sharing with you off air. . I didn’t understand really anything about spirituality before I met my husband. I remember he had these crystals in his window. I was like, what are they? And he was like, crystals. I’m like, this guy’s a weirdo. And now that I’ve kind of gone on my own journey, I’m like, I can totally empathize and understand why people who perhaps haven’t sort of started to have their own personal experiences could not, couldn’t, you know, understand and not really see things the way that perhaps other people can anyway, I feel like we could, I could just talk.

I want to just absorb all of you and talk to you for hours, but I did bring you on this podcast to talk about money. So perhaps let’s segue into, you know, when we talk about these spiritual and human experience, how. I know that you work with a lot of entrepreneurs. So talk to me about that. You’re having, what, how do you bring a lot of this work into the work as entrepreneurs that we do?

MAKHOSI: Yeah. So I do have to be really clear when I’m talking to entrepreneurs, specifically what I care about is that they are living in their calling that they are doing the work that they are here to do right. And there’s a ton of ways to make money and I’m not going to demonize any of those. In fact, if you need those, want those by all means, but also to me, number one priority is that you are serving humanity by being who you were here to be. And the way that I apply a lot of my Knowing experience, so on and so forth to entrepreneurs is really in supporting them in a lot of deconditioning work.

So what we can understand is that all of us are being conditioned all of the time, whether it’s through marketing, through religion, through education, through our families, through our communities, through Tik TOK, right? We are all receiving information. And then we are making unconscious decisions about who we are in this world based off of what we have seen, what we have experienced, what, you know, people tell us matters. And from my perspective, from a spiritual lens, each of us came already perfect. If you look at a baby, right, you cannot tell me that that is not perfection. They come already with certain traits, certain personalities, before they even like created a personality or a persona before they even have a name, right? There is an essence to them, but it’s over a lifetime of having certain experiences that then we can tort ourselves to try and fit in, to try and stay connected in order to stay safe, so on and so forth.

So with entrepreneurs, and as it relates to money, a lot of the work that we have to do then is Letting go of some of those ways of viewing the world and ways of being in the world that at one point served you, right? Like at one point, it served you to think that you, you know, needed to get a college education. And so you became the identity of a college student that worked for a time. However, if you continue holding on to the identity of, I am a college student.

Or college is the only way to succeed. My, my college background is the only way to succeed. And then you try and take that into entrepreneurship. Well, you’re going to have some problems because there’s not a curriculum that gets you to the entrepreneurship degree.

CLARE: Yeah.

MAKHOSI: And there’s also not a copycat template that we can all just plug into to be successful in business, to be successful in making money and be successful in actually having the impact.

So I see a lot of entrepreneurs who, you know, kind of think like there’s, there’s a way to do business. There’s one way to do business. No, I will say there are a multitude of ways that are going to be aligned for you to do business. And that’s going to look different than how It’s going to work for me.

And so it is this beautiful process of self discovery through entrepreneurship, through the process of making money, through creating an impact that you are confronted with. All of your limitations that you are holding onto, we get to break those down and then you get to install ones that actually support you leaving your legacy in this world.

CLARE: Oh, my gosh, so much paradoxical, stuff has just come out about money in what you said there, because in some respects, like, if someone comes to you and says, right, I want to make a million dollars within the next six months. I can imagine that you’d be like, you’re missing the whole point. Like, am I right in that?

But equally, what you were saying is that, that expression and desire for financial freedom and all of that is something as well that you can support people to unlock by uncovering their truest self. But you’re not, The work that you do isn’t like, yeah, I’m going to get you to this result by this period of time.

MAKHOSI: 1000%. It’s funny. You notice the paradox because everything that I do lives in this paradox. So the desire to create a million dollar business is there for a reason, not because your soul wants to have a million dollar business. Your soul is creating, is like installing that desire in you because it wants you to become the kind of person who experiences a million dollar a year business, right?

So the difference here is what we’re looking at is it’s not just about what you get, which is the end result or the goal. It is who you become in the process. It’s what are those characteristics that you’re developing along the way and, and your ability to enjoy the ride. Your ability to surrender to actually being in the present because the future doesn’t actually exist and suffering happens when we get so attached to… I have to get the million dollars. I have to get the million dollars. That we miss out on how amazing our clients are in front of us or how much fun it is to get to do a podcast when it’s like evening for me and the butt crack of dawn for you, right? And that we get to have this experience. We didn’t even know each other before that.

So for me and what I wish for every client who comes through my door and then eventually leaves is that they are able to love and enjoy both that they are able to enjoy their becoming and enjoy their success.

CLARE: Hmm. Okay. Let’s, let’s talk about this. The destination. And this is something that I talk to my clients about. I’m telling you, you will get to the thing that you think that you want, and you still won’t feel you know, complete, happy, whatever, whatever the feeling that you think you’re going to experience there if you’re so hung up on the on the goal, you won’t feel it when you get there. And I’ve seen it so many times over the years when, you know, someone goes, when I hit that $50k month, like, that’s it, you know, I’ll be happy. And I’m like, you won’t, you’ll get there and you’ll want more. Or you’ll be like, is that it?

So talk to me about how that works with the work that you do. What are we here for? Like, why are us beings, why are we here in this physical realm? What’s this whole experience all about?

MAKHOSI: Oh, so just in short, you want me to tell you the meaning of life? So I will tell you from my perspective.

My perspective is that we are here to grow. We are here to evolve. It’s why I created my methodology called euphoric evolution. The whole point is that we evolve and that we do so in an aligned way. And when we do that as a natural byproduct, we experience the abundance. Meaning not just the money. Money is one aspect, and I talk about it a lot because people care about money a lot, but it also means the kinds of relationships, the kind of partnerships, the kinds of opportunities, et cetera, that are aligned for you can come in without you having to, you know, constantly be Pushing, forcing being miserable until you get there, right? It’s like you get there and it’s also an enjoyable experience, but a lot of there does have to be a certain level of surrender to the fact that there’s what you think you want.

Like, I think we’ve all had this experience of dating someone who we wanted so badly , and now we look back on it and we’re like, oh my gosh, like I can’t even imagine what my life would look like right now if I had fully gotten what I thought. And that’s the truth about like all of this. There is no beautiful by product, no beautiful goal, no beautiful end result that doesn’t also have its shadow side, right? Our mind loves to put glitter and rose and all the sparkles on the things that we think we want, but those things that we want also come with challenges and blocks and, you know, because we are here to learn. We are here to become. We are here to evolve in our identity. Ultimately, we are here to have experience, to have different experiences, and we can either surrender to that and actually enjoy that process, what it means to be human, or we can continue to suffer because we fixate on an imagination of the future that is not rooted in reality at all, or memories of a past that no longer existent.

CLARE: Yeah. Okay, so I’ve been really curious to ask, you know, as a spiritual worker as a healer. I’ve worked with a couple of clients of mine who are healers and and we talk about money and there’s a real sense of guilt or shame about things like pricing. You’ve got this gift, how do you reconcile receiving money in, in the physical realm with this unphysical gift that you have, like, and how do you sort of, where’s the line of like, I’m here to help people. I’m here to show people the truth. And also like how much you charge, how do you even receive money for that kind of work? And even to some extent, like I think the same as a coach, like some people can never afford that. So how do you sort of navigate through those things as someone who, who does the work that you do?

MAKHOSI: Yeah, you know, the reason why I started talking about money more and well, mainly it became, it started because people started asking because it is, it is known that to work with me one on one, is an investment. It’s an investment. And a lot of healers have lots of hangups around that. And by the way, that is intentional conditioning. Because if you can program people to believe that the only thing that’s valuable is What they do and not who they are, meaning what comes innately to them, what is just so natural to them, then they will constantly be distracted by having to work harder by gathering all of the credentials and certifications and degrees and so on and so forth, trying to prove that they are worthy of X, Y, Z amount of dollars. Right.

So with healers, specifically, there’s been a lot of programming and education or miss education in my perspective that this isn’t valuable that it’s not that it isn’t valuable for you to, let’s say, utilize your hands. And the energy from them to do healing on someone or to use any psychic abilities to support someone in seeing where their path is going and making decisions based on that. Right.

But yet in our society, how much do football players earn? And how much do you know the top actors and actresses make and they are entertaining you. That is important and it is valuable. But if you understand that everything that is physical is spiritual first, meaning that, in my perspective, the spiritual plane is the most important. Your spiritual work is the most important. If someone is spiritually misaligned it is influencing and messing up all sorts of things in their life, period.

So that number one, when I, when I started to have that realization around what was the actual worth. When I looked at people that I was working with and I looked at not just what was the immediate effect, but I started looking at what was the ripple effect of our work together, how they were able to relate to their children and how they were able to relate to partners and how they were able to stop certain patterns that were happening in their family and so on and so forth. Right? That was when I started to understand. Whoa, this is not just about me charging for a reiki session. Right? It is something so much bigger than that.

Now, other people might not understand that. So we have to learn how to communicate that value in terms that people can understand, in terms that connects to what that person desires and wants or the problems that they want solved. We have to be able to be able to communicate our gifts in a way that makes sense.

So, for example, you asked me about trance and we went on a fun little tangent about that, but I don’t talk about trance that much because as it relates to my, my clients specifically, most of the times they don’t see it and they, some of them know that it’s happening because I’m showing up in their dreams and whatnot. But it isn’t necessarily what matters for them. What matters is the pain that they’re experiencing, the problems that are showing up in their life and what it is that they desire that maybe they haven’t even said out loud or even put words to, right. And then I get to be the person to put words to it for them.

So I know that that was like a super long answer, but I’m really, really passionate about healers spiritual entrepreneurs, people who are conscious. Really doing this work, because if we don’t have them accepting and receiving money in exchange, then what are they going to do? They’re going to go and work in X, Y, Z field that isn’t even contributing anything positive so that they can make money, you know, pay their bills and eat and maybe retire some day, right?

The other piece I almost forgot, but I don’t want to forget is I have a little challenge because sometimes we think like, oh, if you just want to help people, then you should just do it. You should just do it for free or you should just you know, make it as quote unquote accessible as possible. But what actually happens when we do that, we’ve got to deal with human psychology and when we have free stuff or when it, we didn’t have to put any skin in the game. It does not transform our lives. It does not make as big of a difference that it can.

So we’ve got to look at who are we here to serve and our pricing should match who we are here to serve. And also what that transformation, what that experience ultimately means to them, because the value in that is not about us as much as it is about who we are here to serve. So some people will balk at, what an investment is to work with me or to work with you, but, is that the kind of person that is actually going to be able to receive our gifting. The answer is no. If someone only paid $10 to quote, unquote, work on their money mindset, right? Depending on where they are, they probably are not in a position to really fully benefit that from that. They should probably look at how they can just make $10 and focus on that area of their life before focusing on the, the mindset of mastering, right?

It’s like, where are they in their journey and aligning? Okay, this is this is someone who’s at a beginner stage. This is what they value and our pricing should reflect that. And this is someone intermediate and this is someone advanced and so on and so forth.

CLARE: Oh yeah, that’s summed up how I feel about pricing on so many levels.

I once bought this package, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen it, but it’s like a course bundle and basically you buy a hundred courses for $100 and they’re proper like, you know, Amy Porterfield courses and all these well known names. So it was $99. How many of those courses do you think that I did? Zero.

MAKHOSI: I was going to say maybe one.

CLARE: I opened up one and did like the first couple of slides and When one of my girlfriends launched this course that I wanted to do, I just went and signed up and she’s like, I want to give you a discount or, you know, you could have just come in. And I was like, no, because I have to pay. It’s going to be like the $99 courses, that sat there because for me, a hundred dollars, I know this might be triggering for some people, but a hundred dollars is nothing like that’s not a sum of money that’s significant to me. And so I didn’t even bother doing them and because I hadn’t paid an amount of money that was going to make me lean into the investment. And again, you know, I’ve made some investments, which, you know, I didn’t even shopped the calls. And that’s why I like, I like to be working with someone at a point where I’m like you know, my last coach I worked with was really significant financial investment.

You bet your sweet butt that I was at every call with her. I had my pen and paper ready to go. I was there. I run late for everything. I was on time for every single one of those calls. I’m now I’m immersed. I was like, I have to be in my most energetic state to receive the messages that I’m going to get here because I spent so much fricking money on this that I have to make it worthwhile as compared to my 99, which I’m like, yeah, it’s out the window.

Who cares? So what you’ve said is so true. And also what is expensive inverted commas for some people. is not expensive for other people.

MAKHOSI: The other layer of that is like, what is expensive in one area for one person? Is not expensive in another area of life, right? And so we’ve got to understand that when we’re pricing, when we’re pricing our services, it’s about what that person Values, you know, okay, because someone can say, like, I just spent $250, 000 on a Lamborghini and I can appreciate that it’s a beautiful car, but like, I’m not a car person. So, $250, 000, It’s going to be hard to convince me to spend $250, 000 on a Lamborghini, not because I have a poor mindset or because, you know, yada, yada, yada. It’s just not aligned with value.

However, I have other things that I spend money on, like for me, clothing matters to me a lot, clothing, my handbag shoes, which seems very superficial for a shaman. A lot of people do not get it. I am deep all day. I am deep all the time in the trenches with people sharing their darkest and heaviest, most traumatic stuff all the time. I love to have something in my life that is surface. Now, there is depth to it for me because in my experience, it expresses essence, but it is an escape for me to like have a break from all of the depth. And now I get to just focus on, oh, I get to play in my clothes and blah, blah, blah. And I invest in what I wear. I invest in my makeup. I invest in my hair, but I’m not going to spend $250, 000 on a Lamborghini.

So it’s, it’s literally like, If we, if we look at any person, right, this is why we have to be really careful about our judgment of one another of like, how could someone, how could someone spend, like I see people in the coaching industry, someone spend $300, 000 to work with the coach for a year.

Well, excuse me, but you have no idea how valuable when you are at certain levels Having someone who number one will tell you the truth and not just be a yes man who will challenge you, who will ask you hard questions, who will just hold space for so many challenges that other people have no idea. What it’s like, that is worth every bit of $300, 000 for those people.

Just like for some people, $300, 000 on a custom Lambo is completely worth it because of the craftsmanship and the color and the, you know, blah, blah, blah, none of it is right or wrong. It’s all about who are you at your core? Are you making decisions financially that align with Who you actually are and who you desire to be.

Are you making investments in the direction of where you’re going, or are you making decisions in reaction to your current reality?

CLARE: That phrase right there. I want to capture that and write it on the wall. And you, you know, totally right. Like it does come down to one of my clients was a tutor. Like she helped kids who had learning disabilities. And we were talking about her pricing. She was feeling all this guilt and shame and, you know, I help kids who have learning disabilities. How can I, and I said, I want you to have a look at the mom’s when they come in and tell me if they’ve got eyelash extensions, tell me if they’ve got their nails done, tell me what kind of bags they’ve got, notice what kind of car they pulled up in. And she was like, Oh my gosh, you are so right. And I’m like, what do you think is more important to them? Their child’s education or, eyelashes and fingernails. And I’m like, I just want you to keep that in context when you were thinking about these things, because to me, my child, particularly if I had a child with a learning disability would be the most important thing that I would want to invest in my growth, my personal development for me is one of my highest priorities and values. And, you know, when we sit down and look at our finances at the end of the month, I’m like, whoa, there’s a lot of money on, you know, coaching or counseling or whatever it might be therapy. It’s like, but that is really important because this is, you know, this is my essence, this is our life.

And, and working through these things, peeling back the layers of the onion is incredibly, incredibly important. Look, this is a really beautiful segue into, If people are listening to this, like me and are sitting here completely mesmerized saying, how can I take this work further? How could we work together? What does it look like to work with you? And how can you help entrepreneurs to really uncover who they are in this world and how they can be the person they were meant to be, have the impact they were meant to have.

MAKHOSI: So, you know, I built my business I started with working with leaders at a very high level, seven figures plus. And over time, I’ve built out a model that can support anyone at any stage. However, with a caveat that they understand that, really, my approach is about the energetics and the self discovery and understanding that when your identities in alignment with your essence, that then the strategies, the actions, et cetera, that you need to take become clearer. Right.

So there’s a few different ways that you can work with me. I’m actually wrapping up our very first round of my new offer called your quantum business, and it’s going absolutely incredible. The feedback that we’re getting from everyone is like, Oh, my gosh, I would have paid three times or more what I paid to be a part of this group. So we’re going to be relaunching that in this fall. So probably September, October around there. And my plan is to launch it at least once a year, probably twice a year. And that’s really good for you if you are in the earlier stages of your business or you are like just being introduced to energetics. So there’s a few different ways, I use human design gene keys. Also lunar cycle planning how to align with the moon in there a little bit as well as just understanding certain energetic concepts as it relates to a vast array of aspects of the universe. Yourself and your business.

The next level would be Ascension, which is a year long group coaching offer. And when you do join Ascension, you also get to participate in your quantum business as a bonus as an add on. So you get not only the information and the knowledge, but then you have a The support of a group coaching environment and the beauty is because there is an investment in it. It is not a group coaching where people don’t show up. In fact, we have on average, about 90 to 95 percent of people showing up to our container every single month, which is amazing. Unheard of in a lot of spaces online because people don’t people don’t show up. We’ve built this business really on the idea of intimacy of custom and individualized support. And so we choose to work with fewer people. We keep things much smaller. Intentionally, because then people show up more powerfully, more vulnerably the level of connection that they can have because it’s not just surface level. And then at the higher levels.

CLARE: So just on Ascension, sorry to cut you off there, but what sort of level of business owner might that be for?

MAKHOSI: So I would say that typically there’s not just a financial level that could be, well, number one, you probably want to have had some sales in your business that will, that will definitely help in that. And you know, we’ve had people up to six or multiple six figures in there. A few who were beyond. But really at that level, up to six figures, maybe up to $200, 000, where it’s mainly about you and your energetics having an influence on the challenges that are showing up in your business, in your sales, so on and so forth. That’s really a great place to start.

Now, if you are someone who is, let’s say, at $200, 000 or above $250, 000 and above we have some members who are, you know, in the 7 figures plus a big component of that space is navigating team. So we have some conversations around navigating team dynamics, but also that’s really for an entrepreneur who it’s not just about making enough money for themselves. Right. So Ascension is more about putting my gift out into the world so I can take care of myself. So I can fill my own cup. Synergy, which is that higher level, is about leadership. It’s about how can we create bigger impact? It’s about how can I navigate my team? How can I, you know, create different opportunities, network? So on and so forth, and I do not just coach coaches. So all of my containers have a vast array of different industries, which gives so much opportunity for innovation. I have doctors and psychologists as well as artists and, you know marketing agency owners and jewelry makers and so on and so forth.

So you get insight into what’s happening in other industries and see how you can apply that in your own. But also, it’s probably 1 of the only spaces where your. In all of our containers, your spiritual wellbeing is the focus is the priority because we understand that that’s actually what’s influencing. So you don’t come in and expect to learn the latest and greatest tactics. Like I’m not going to tell you how to get to 10, 000 people on Instagram. Yeah, that’s not at all what we’re going to do. But what we will do is support you in uncovering, you know, what is, what is a line visibility. Look like for you.

And what are those things that you desire to be talking about? And where are you holding yourself back because of conditioning? That’s the kinds of the kinds of fuel, the kinds of knowledge, the kinds of connection that’s happening in those spaces.

CLARE: Wow. It sounds like you’ve got a really amazing community that you’ve built.

 I love that. Well, what we’ll do, we’ll pop all of those links in the show notes for today’s episode and I’ll also pop your social media links as well. So if anyone wants to reach out and connect, they can do so. Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming along. My mind is blown. I’m going to need to go and sit on the couch for a little while afterwards to absorb all of this.

 We really, really appreciate your time. Was there anything that you wanted to say to wrap up?

MAKHOSI: Yeah, I just wanted to say to you, thank you for, you know, I know that you have a platform that is the focus is on finance and money and just being brave enough. To expand that conversation to, Hey, there actually could be other influences that are impacting your money, your business, your, you know, your financial relationships and so on and so forth is something that not many people are doing.

I think more people will be doing it over the next 5 to 10 years, which I’m excited about. But, you know, you get to really be pioneering in that and it’ll be, it’ll be interesting to see, you know, what kind of feedback we get from this conversation.

CLARE: I’m really excited. And I, I think that this is one of the cool things about having our platform is that the more that we can share our own journey and you know what we’re learning about on the way. And for me, I’m like, I can’t not be talking about this stuff because it all, it’s all interconnected as well. So thank you for coming and sharing. I really appreciate it.

* Transcript created by AI – may contain errors or omissions from original podcast audio